LE encounter and wrongfully being asked to disarm

This is a discussion on LE encounter and wrongfully being asked to disarm within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Since Minnesota has no duty to inform, how did the officer know you carry in the first place? Having said that, here is what Minnesota ...

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Thread: LE encounter and wrongfully being asked to disarm

  1. #16
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    Since Minnesota has no duty to inform, how did the officer know you carry in the first place? Having said that, here is what Minnesota law states:

    (a) A person carrying a firearm on or about his or her person or clothes under a permit or otherwise who remains at a private establishment knowing that the operator of the establishment or its agent has made a reasonable request that firearms not be brought into the establishment may be ordered to leave the premises. A person who fails to leave when so requested is guilty of a petty misdemeanor. The fine for a first offense must not exceed $25. Notwithstanding section 609.531, a firearm carried in violation of this subdivision is not subject to forfeiture.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array Chad Rogers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crowman View Post
    Your answer might lie in the fact that he was not acting in the capacity of a law enforcement officer. It appears he was exerting his personal view on concealed carry of weapons by the general public. Or, maybe he just doesn't care for you and decided to hassle you.
    I am unfamiliar with any jurisdictions in which an off-duty cop loses his police officer powers.
    "People who take an Internet handle of a great warrior, are usually the first to go fetal when crunch time comes." - Me

  4. #18
    Senior Member Array Rotorblade's Avatar
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    Since he was moon-lighting as the theater's security he is actually an employee of the theater. As the theater is private property I believe he could ask you to disarm or leave even if it wasn't posted. Now if you had declined to answer the question, I'm not sure what he could have done.
    To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the crocodile, hoping he will eat you last - but eat you he will.
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  5. #19
    Member Array WHYDAH's Avatar
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    This episode just doesn't pass the smell test.

    I think that I would have politely declined his invitation to disarm unless the theater had a policy in place against concealed carry on the premises. I would also have told him that the weapon is more secure on my person than outside unattended in a vehicle where it could be stolen. If he were still insistent, I would have left.

  6. #20
    Senior Member Array Chesafreak's Avatar
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    Way to go, you rolled over and gave up your rights. I understand picking your battles, but from what you told us you were in the right. Act like you have a pair and stand up for yourself. Since you couldn't do that, this guy is going to get away with abusing other's 2nd amendment rigts. At the very least you could have spoken to the manager and told him why you aren't coming back, and filed a complaint with the Police Department on this guy.
    "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery." - Thomas Jefferson

  7. #21
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    There's no way what you did was "wrong" -- it all worked out and nobody got arrested or thrown over the hood of a car. However, I think this was a situation where you were in the right and would've IMO been justified -- not to call him what he is, as tempting as that would be -- but to inform him of the laws, regulations, etc. and that you're exercising your rights under the law. You might even ask why he wants to disarm you when you're carrying legally. You could say that politely and see where it it goes. Obviously, if he raises a stink it's not worth a hassle -- talk to mall management about it later, which I still recommend.

  8. #22
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    Lot's of good suggestions as to following up on initiating complaints to the appropriate authorities.

    As to the Original incident. Being as Minnesota has no duty to inform I'd have politely informed the Officer that it was non of his business and requested the Managers presence.
    "There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

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  9. #23
    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
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    So officer I am the first and last word on everything tells you to do something right or wrong you bend down and do as you are told.
    Ok for you but not me I would sue him . And off duty or not he is still LEO's and he is accountable.
    We have a big problem right now with many Chief or police ,DA's going against the law, they feel they are above the law. It must be stopped.

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Rogers View Post
    I am unfamiliar with any jurisdictions in which an off-duty cop loses his police officer powers.
    This was the question I was asking in my earlier post. Until I know better I would be leery of ignoring an off duty cop. Any LEO's here that might have a documented answer to this?
    As I mentioned in my earlier response my father was considered to be always on duty if the need came up. Or so they told him. To emphasize that point they requested that all off duty cops carry a concealed firearm with them when off duty is it was possible and the officer had one.

    Michael

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
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    I know of no State where a LEO loses the police powers when off Duty. If anyone can show me one I would find it interesting.
    The only time and place I know of when a LEO loses their police power is on Federal property where no agreement is in place.

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    This was the question I was asking in my earlier post. Until I know better I would be leery of ignoring an off duty cop. Any LEO's here that might have a documented answer to this?
    As I mentioned in my earlier response my father was considered to be always on duty if the need came up. Or so they told him. To emphasize that point they requested that all off duty cops carry a concealed firearm with them when off duty is it was possible and the officer had one.

    Michael
    every state is different, but here when we work an off-duty job its given to us through the PD, the business requests off-duty officer(s) (meaning not on shift, we are never actually off-duty) and officers are setup with the assignment, we act in the capacity of a police officer at the place of business

    that being said, I'd contact the mall too and confirm their policy, if they don't have the policy in place barring weapons, let them know what this guy did, and if no policy in place....this officer needs to reported to his dept, what he did is out of line UNLESS the mall has requested this to take place
    Hopyard and mr.stuart like this.
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  13. #27
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    My wife made a call to the general manager of the mall the day after this when I was at work and confirmed that it is NOT banned. I am considering writing a letter to the chief of police because this certain officer was a lieutenant.
    2nd Amendment, the one that protects the rest!

  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Since Minnesota has no duty to inform, how did the officer know you carry in the first place? Having said that, here is what Minnesota law states:

    (a) A person carrying a firearm on or about his or her person or clothes under a permit or otherwise who remains at a private establishment knowing that the operator of the establishment or its agent has made a reasonable request that firearms not be brought into the establishment may be ordered to leave the premises. A person who fails to leave when so requested is guilty of a petty misdemeanor. The fine for a first offense must not exceed $25. Notwithstanding section 609.531, a firearm carried in violation of this subdivision is not subject to forfeiture.
    I don't like how this worked out for the OP, but it seems to me that with the "or it's agent" part he'd likely lose this battle.
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ppkheat View Post
    I don't like how this worked out for the OP, but it seems to me that with the "or it's agent" part he'd likely lose this battle.
    I agree. Given that the establishment has seen fit to employ a police supervisor during his off-duty hours to maintain security, it is probably safe to assume that they give him plenty of latitude in making calls like this one.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

  16. #30
    Senior Member Array Chad Rogers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kahnkem View Post
    I use to work as security for a mall by where I live a long time ago and have come to know many officers that have responded to our calls. One of them however has a "cops should be the only one with guns" mentality. He knows I have mine and carry 99% of the time. I was going to a movie this one night that he happen to be moonlighting as their security. As I was entering the lobby he approached me and asked if I was carrying, being up front about it I said I am carrying and handed over my card. He then asked me to disarm and leave it in the car. I know for a fact that the theater doesn't ban carry, nor does the mall it is attached to. And the most obvious part it isn't posted on the entry way that carry is banned. I remarked back to him even tho it isn't banned and isn't posted I will respect his request and leave it in my car. I feel that he took advantage of my respect for LEO's that I wouldn't refuse to disarm. Any thought on how this went and what would have been a better choice or if I made the right choice.
    As you go through life you will find that it is generally much more desireable to avoid conflict when you can. Never feel like you have to live up to the standards of others, especially just so they can sit around in the basement of their mom's house and be entertained by what happened to you. Most people who rant about manning the barricades are the first to flee when any hint of trouble manifests itself.

    Now you may decide to pursue the matter. Entirely within your rights, and not necessarily inappropriate. But you did a great job of avoiding the conflict of the moment. Imagine if you had been with a date. Are you sure she would have been impressed with you making a scene?
    "People who take an Internet handle of a great warrior, are usually the first to go fetal when crunch time comes." - Me

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