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LE encounter and wrongfully being asked to disarm

This is a discussion on LE encounter and wrongfully being asked to disarm within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Looky here, Mall Copper, go guard the popcorn machine and leave us paying customers alone!...

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Thread: LE encounter and wrongfully being asked to disarm

  1. #31
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    Looky here, Mall Copper, go guard the popcorn machine and leave us paying customers alone!
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield


  2. #32
    Member Array Wreckingba11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    I agree. Given that the establishment has seen fit to employ a police supervisor during his off-duty hours to maintain security, it is probably safe to assume that they give him plenty of latitude in making calls like this one.
    It is still an abuse of personal knowledge. How many other law abiding (or not for that matter) walked by this officer with a concealed weapon? There is absolutely no reason the OP should have been singled out because of private knowledge.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wreckingba11 View Post
    It is still an abuse of personal knowledge. How many other law abiding (or not for that matter) walked by this officer with a concealed weapon? There is absolutely no reason the OP should have been singled out because of private knowledge.
    Perhaps his motivations were legitimate, and well-founded.
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  4. #34
    Ex Member Array Yankeejib's Avatar
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    It always helps to be intimately familiar with your laws and regs before speaking. I know where I live, management can tell me to leave for any reason. I also have no obligation to notify. I would have told my previous acquaintance/gatekeeper to go have intercourse with himself. If a manager asks me to leave, I'd skeedaddle without complaint.

  5. #35
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    In MN you must notify upon a lawful request, and any officer can request on or off duty. Acting as an agent for a private business, he can notify you that guns are not welcome no matter the policy or lack of signage. If you hadn't left he could have rightfully charged you with a petty $25 misdemeanor, a gun charge nevertheless. You did the lawful, right thing by returning your gun to your car. Obviously he singled you out from prior knowledge, but it doesn't matter, he bullied you because he could. If he hadn't been working for the establishment, he wouldn't have been able to order you to disarm, unless you gave him probable cause to fear for his or public safety. IANAL but, unless competent legal advice says otherwise, you were in a no win situation, and you handled it admirably. I wouldn't make a big deal out of it, because the lieutenant acted within the statute. Besides, this was just a freak acting in a freak manner at a freak moment in time.
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    Last edited by gunthorp; July 14th, 2012 at 10:08 AM.
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  6. #36
    Senior Member Array xsigma40cal's Avatar
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    In his official capacity at this time, he is only a security guard that is either contracted with the mall and has no actual authority, or a mall employee and still has no authority because he is a MALL SECURITY GUARD!! Searching individuals is not within his job description, if it was, theyd give him a metal detector. Even if he had his badge on, he cannot rightfully ask you to disclose if your carrying or not. Tell him to...

    A)get a life.
    B)focus on busting snot-nosed teenagers sneaking into the latest skin-flick.
    or
    C)If he's got a problem with it, take it up with Mall administration to have some signs posted on the doors going into the mall.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by xsigma40cal View Post
    In his official capacity at this time, he is only a security guard that is either contracted with the mall and has no actual authority, or a mall employee and still has no authority because he is a MALL SECURITY GUARD!! Searching individuals is not within his job description, if it was, theyd give him a metal detector. Even if he had his badge on, he cannot rightfully ask you to disclose if your carrying or not. Tell him to...

    A)get a life.
    B)focus on busting snot-nosed teenagers sneaking into the latest skin-flick.
    or
    C)If he's got a problem with it, take it up with Mall administration to have some signs posted on the doors going into the mall.
    You might want to re-read the applicable statutes, posted earlier in the thread.
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by xsigma40cal View Post
    In his official capacity at this time, he is only a security guard that is either contracted with the mall and has no actual authority, or a mall employee and still has no authority because he is a MALL SECURITY GUARD!! Searching individuals is not within his job description, if it was, theyd give him a metal detector. Even if he had his badge on, he cannot rightfully ask you to disclose if your carrying or not. Tell him to...

    A)get a life.
    B)focus on busting snot-nosed teenagers sneaking into the latest skin-flick.
    or
    C)If he's got a problem with it, take it up with Mall administration to have some signs posted on the doors going into the mall.
    You might want to discuss this approach with your MN training instructor. We are ambassadors for the carry movement, we need to know the letter of the law, and IMO we have a responsibility to use discretion, tact, and politely enjoy our rights.
    Liberty, Property, or Death - Jonathan Gardner's powder horn inscription 1776

    Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.
    ("Do not give in to evil but proceed ever more boldly against it.")
    -Virgil, Aeneid, vi, 95

  9. #39
    Senior Member Array Rotorblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xsigma40cal View Post
    In his official capacity at this time, he is only a security guard that is either contracted with the mall and has no actual authority, or a mall employee and still has no authority because he is a MALL SECURITY GUARD!! Searching individuals is not within his job description, if it was, theyd give him a metal detector. Even if he had his badge on, he cannot rightfully ask you to disclose if your carrying or not. Tell him to...
    Assuming he was hired by the mall or the movie theater he does have some limited authority. He did not search the OP and he can ask anything he wants. The OP can decline to state if he is carrying or not. If the OP feels he was mistreated he should take it up with the mall and hopefully that police officer won't be invited back. Remember, all of this happened on private property so I doubt if anybody is getting sued here for violating this guys "rights" as another poster suggested.
    To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the crocodile, hoping he will eat you last - but eat you he will.
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  10. #40
    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kahnkem View Post
    As I was entering the lobby he approached me and asked if I was carrying, being up front about it I said I am carrying and handed over my card. He then asked me to disarm and leave it in the car.
    Seems some posters are missing something. If what the original poster states above then the officer was wrong, period. Granted he is law enforcement(24/7) however he gave no legal basis for his "order" and he knew it.

    The officer was wrong police lieutenant or not, in fact with his rank he should know better.
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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crowman View Post
    Seems some posters are missing something. If what the original poster states above then the officer was wrong, period. Granted he is law enforcement(24/7) however he gave no legal basis for his "order" and he knew it.

    The officer was wrong police lieutenant or not, in fact with his rank he should know better.
    Some of us are just questioning whether or not the officer retains his police powers even when off duty. While I believe the officer was wrong in what he did. Knowing is he still has his police powers might determine whether or not I tell him to go pound sand. Knowing what I was up against might influence how I respond is all.

    Michael

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