LE encounter and wrongfully being asked to disarm

LE encounter and wrongfully being asked to disarm

This is a discussion on LE encounter and wrongfully being asked to disarm within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I use to work as security for a mall by where I live a long time ago and have come to know many officers that ...

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Thread: LE encounter and wrongfully being asked to disarm

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    Member Array Kahnkem's Avatar
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    LE encounter and wrongfully being asked to disarm

    I use to work as security for a mall by where I live a long time ago and have come to know many officers that have responded to our calls. One of them however has a "cops should be the only one with guns" mentality. He knows I have mine and carry 99% of the time. I was going to a movie this one night that he happen to be moonlighting as their security. As I was entering the lobby he approached me and asked if I was carrying, being up front about it I said I am carrying and handed over my card. He then asked me to disarm and leave it in the car. I know for a fact that the theater doesn't ban carry, nor does the mall it is attached to. And the most obvious part it isn't posted on the entry way that carry is banned. I remarked back to him even tho it isn't banned and isn't posted I will respect his request and leave it in my car. I feel that he took advantage of my respect for LEO's that I wouldn't refuse to disarm. Any thought on how this went and what would have been a better choice or if I made the right choice.
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    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    Your answer might lie in the fact that he was not acting in the capacity of a law enforcement officer. It appears he was exerting his personal view on concealed carry of weapons by the general public. Or, maybe he just doesn't care for you and decided to hassle you.

    As far as the right choice.... as long as you are comfortable and can live with the choice you made it is the right choice. I am sure you will see various posts that will tell you that your made the right choice and the wrong choice.
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    You'll get a lot of different answers on this one. I think you're right about your LE acquaintance using "personal" knowledge of you to your disadvantage; what about all the patrons walking by him that were armed that he didn't know about? But it sounds like you handled it diplomatically and survived the night without incident.

    You might make that incident known to the theater's management, and respectfully ask that they make their policy about allowing lawfully carry of weapons known to all their security staff.
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    Senior Member Array Cokeman's Avatar
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    I would have told him to "suck it" if telling him "none of your business" didn't work. What would he have done if you didn't tell him, search you? Arrest you?
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    When he asked if I was armed I would have said "nope" and went about my business.
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    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    I 'm with Crowman afa whatever makes you comfortable. Another route would be "Hi Joe, this establishment doesn't ban CC so if you don't mind I'm gonna get back to enjoying my evening". He definitely crossed the line when he used info you apparently confided in him to further his own agenda. Another reason for never telling - even friends/LEOs.

    Or just lie since he wasn't acting as an LEO.
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    Senior Member Array Crescentstar's Avatar
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    Sounds more personal than professional. The problem is, if you complain to the theater management, the next thing you know, he will have them convinced to post a gun buster sign. I would probably consider it an isolated incident and leave it alone. You might win the battle but lose the war.
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    VIP Member Array mprp's Avatar
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    I think I would bring it up to his agency and give them as big of a complaint as I could but remain as tactful as possible, letting them know that their officer wasn't very professional in handling your situation. When a line is crossed by either side, something should be done to educate and keep things in check.
    sgb and 64zebra like this.
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    Interesting subject? If you are in a must notify State and an off duty cop makes it known that he is a cop and wants to know if you are armed do you have to notify? I would think yes you do. Back in the stone ages, 1950's when my father was a cop they considered him on duty 24 hours a day if he was needed.

    Any ideas?

    Michael

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    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    I believe it depends on the nature of the interaction. Even when on duty, if a LEO approaches you in an unofficial manner (shooting the breeze, asking for directions) you don't have to notify. This was not an "official interaction".
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    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    If he was wearing the uniform of LE then it makes no difference whether or not he was moonlighting or on duty, he is representing himself as a law enforcement officer and is still held to that level of professionalism. If he was wearing his LE uniform then I would follow up with a written letter to his supervisor at the department he serves with detailing exactly what occurred and request clarification on why he acted in the manor he did. Do not forget to specifically state that he was in official uniform during this interaction.
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    What NC Bullseye said. BTW, how many did you imbibe at the attached watering hole before the approach? We both know that your blue nemisis isn't working alone.
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    Member Array Blades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC Bullseye View Post
    If he was wearing the uniform of LE then it makes no difference whether or not he was moonlighting or on duty, he is representing himself as a law enforcement officer and is still held to that level of professionalism. If he was wearing his LE uniform then I would follow up with a written letter to his supervisor at the department he serves with detailing exactly what occurred and request clarification on why he acted in the manor he did. Do not forget to specifically state that he was in official uniform during this interaction.
    Good idea. He may be "bullying" others also.
    --Jason--

  14. #14
    Distinguished Member Array deadguy's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, this guy could have completely ruined your evening as well as that of other movie goers.

    Had you not disarmed because you were still legally able to carry, he could have created a scene that would have certainly made the evening a disaster. He could have also called in the local PD (his buds) stating that an armed man was in the theater and refused to obey his order to disarm. Imagine how that could have turned out.

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    If I am in a state that allows CC of civilians where not banned specifically by law (such as Texas) and enforced with signage, I am carrying. Does the law say I MUST show ID if the officer is not on duty and has no legal reason to stop me, I am not telling him anything and going about my business. If the business wants to refund my money and tell me to leave, I will do so and advise them that they need to conform to the laws or face possible lawsuits for their actions. If that cop represents their business, he better know their policies, and further, he should be there for safety, and not enforcing a business policy personally.

    And here is my biggest point: "So, let me get this straight.....you want me to disarm myself, trust that another person (police officer) that has no constitutional or legal requirement according to court decisions to protect me individually or my family, just society, will actually protect me and my family, and place my weapon into a car that could easily be under criminal surveillance when I walk out to it just to see where wives hide purses or weapons placed into trunks and could be quickly broken into during my movie and the weapon stolen because you think only cops should carry? Uhm, no thank you. If you have no other business, I am going to watch my movie now. Have a nice night"

    If he wants to escalate from there, and I know I am not doing anything criminal, it is on him, but if it does and I am sure that I am doing nothing criminal, I begin recording the event, and I am asking him to contact a supervisor from his department to come by and find out if he is in policy with his own department for that.
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