Police can confiscate issued gear in my car?

This is a discussion on Police can confiscate issued gear in my car? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by NotMallNinja I did not know they could write comprehensible laws in Arkansas. Utterly sensible law. That referenced statute (Arkansas 5-79-101 ) is ...

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Thread: Police can confiscate issued gear in my car?

  1. #46
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotMallNinja View Post
    I did not know they could write comprehensible laws in Arkansas.
    Utterly sensible law. That referenced statute (Arkansas 5-79-101) is about the only rational one I've ever seen, regarding ballistic armor being worn by someone. It sensibly points out that it's the intent to commit crimes while defeating attempts to top it that are abhorrent, whereas merely possessing the stuff isn't really the point. As with firearms, the gun isn't hardly the problem: criminal acts while defeating attempts to stop it, is.

    Kudos to Arkansans for having simple common sense, here, where most others do not!
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
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  3. #47
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    Kudos to Arkansans for having simple common sense, here, where most others do not!

    Thank you we have some pretty good folks representing us. Don't get me wrong sometimes they have a bowl of stupid for breakfast but overall pretty good.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  4. #48
    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotMallNinja View Post
    Yes...but the example above deviates quite a bit from the topic at hand (and by the way, your example seems more like something out of Judge Judy rather than a typical police matter.
    OK try this scenario on for size.....

    The O/P decides to stop at wally world on his way home from a drill. The dilligent decurity guard is patrolling the parking lot in his golf cart with the flashing amber light. When he is approached by a concerned shopper who informs him that there is a car next to his parking spot with some tactical gear/ ballistic vest in it. It may well be a robber, or an active shooter buying ammo or a ski mask inside. The security guard investigates and sure enough... there is a ballistic vest in the back seat. The security guard realize that he's over his head that he's not trained, qualified, or equipped to deal with eather possibility. So he call's the local police... Officer arrives and thinks hmmmm... could have a perfectly legitimate reason for having a ballistic vest in the car... But... Lets err of the side of caution. So the Officer calls for some back-up, and they sit on the car to check out why the driver/passengers have a ballistic vest in their back seat. Our O/P returns to the car,and is spoken to by the police... And asked "whats with the vest?" And knowing he's totally legit re answers that he's coming from some training, and the vest is military issue used in the training. OK sooo you bring your army stuff home? Can you show us some orders?, or a reciept of issue with your name on it?... No?... Ummmm OK were ging to take the vest into custody to determine if it's stolen military material... Just get a set of orders to back up your possesion, or a reciept showing it's been issued to you. You can pick it up down at the police station anytime you like. By the way we may be notifying the F.B.I.

  5. #49
    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotMallNinja View Post
    Yes...but the example above deviates quite a bit from the topic at hand (and by the way, your example seems more like something out of Judge Judy rather than a typical police matter.
    My example is a why and how police may seize property. Sorry that it's not the answer you want. It is what it is. As far as the Judge Judy comment? The police handle disputes all the time. Disputes of every nature, very few involving criminal law. Contrary to some popular belief the police do a whole lot more than criminal law enforcement. Of all the tools at an officers disposal... the one used every day... all day is his ink pen. 90% of all police work requires the use of a pen. Not a gun, or handcuffs, not pepper spray, not a tazer, not the lights and siren on his car It's a pen.

  6. #50
    Ex Member Array NotMallNinja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secret Spuk View Post
    OK try this scenario on for size.....

    The O/P decides to stop at wally world on his way home from a drill. The dilligent decurity guard is patrolling the parking lot in his golf cart with the flashing amber light. When he is approached by a concerned shopper who informs him that there is a car next to his parking spot with some tactical gear/ ballistic vest in it. It may well be a robber, or an active shooter buying ammo or a ski mask inside. The security guard investigates and sure enough... there is a ballistic vest in the back seat. The security guard realize that he's over his head that he's not trained, qualified, or equipped to deal with eather possibility. So he call's the local police... Officer arrives and thinks hmmmm... could have a perfectly legitimate reason for having a ballistic vest in the car... But... Lets err of the side of caution. So the Officer calls for some back-up, and they sit on the car to check out why the driver/passengers have a ballistic vest in their back seat. Our O/P returns to the car,and is spoken to by the police... And asked "whats with the vest?" And knowing he's totally legit re answers that he's coming from some training, and the vest is military issue used in the training. OK sooo you bring your army stuff home? Can you show us some orders?, or a reciept of issue with your name on it?... No?... Ummmm OK were ging to take the vest into custody to determine if it's stolen military material... Just get a set of orders to back up your possesion, or a reciept showing it's been issued to you. You can pick it up down at the police station anytime you like. By the way we may be notifying the F.B.I.
    Sure, the police can do pretty much anything they want under the color of authority and the implied threat that carrying a weapon under that color of authority. Let's take your scenario again and change it up a tad. Instead of seeing tactical gear and a ballistic vest the officer sees an expensive laptop. "Excuse me son, is that your computer? Oh, it's a company computer? Do you have a receipt for it? No?....Ummmm OK we're going to take the computer into custody to determine if it's stolen." The point is we can go about this all day about how a police officer CAN do something WRONG under the color of authority. What you describe is not reasonable and articulable suspicion.

  7. #51
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    SS I see your point but the officer could/would not seize property simply to prove ownership. Unless the possession of body armor is unlawful in your state there is no reason to go further.

    Not knocking what you are saying, using your scenario though, "Are those your water ski's?" "Is that your firearm?" "Are those your uniforms?" and so on there is no reason to question unless as stated before that there are other factors present. Recent burglary and so on. In most situations like this you are merely satisfying the officers curiousity in regards to the armor if there is any in the first place.

    Military orders are usually not issued for a drill weekend, they may be not sure, but you will always have your ID card with you. When I was in the Corps many, many moons ago I was married so I did not maintain a locker in the barracks. My issue gear helmet, flak jacket, field gear and so on were kept at my home. When needed I simply put it in the car and went to work never had orders with me, it was kind of a common sense thing.

  8. #52
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    LOL I'm not suggesting that an officer would, or should seize property. I'm just saying that it can and does happen. Military equipment is quite different than a set of ski's, or a lap-top. Ski's and lap-tops dont generate the same interest as military gear, or a lone vest. 99 times out of a hundred a simple explination ends all the mystery. Yet every now and then property has to be vouchered to determine true ownership. I've done it many times. Not that I was acting "Under color of local law"... or Doing what ever I pleased because I was the police... When I first graduated the academy, and went out by meyself on a foot post for the first time, the first job I handled in my career was a property dispute. Two men both claiming ownership of an ice cream cart. ( in november...I still aint figured that one out) One claimed he purchased it from someone else, the other claimed he built it with his own hands... So I vouchered the card to determine who was the true owner. The guy who says he built it showed up with pictures, and reciepts... he got the cart. Not a whole lot to do with the thread... but it does happen.

    As far as a ballistic vest... that in itself is a suspicious item. Not that they are prohibited... just cause for some suspicion. A little investigation. Given the choice the police will almost always take the side of caution. There is a huge problem with theft from the military. Any current military equipment outside a post, or military vehicle should be looked at closely by the police. If no obvious civil crime has been commited, and the Officer is not satisfied with the explination of why this GI equipment is off post... That requires some looking into. I'm not suggesting that mere possesion of a vest is grounds for seizing it... I'm talking about GI equipment.

  9. #53
    Ex Member Array NotMallNinja's Avatar
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    I can tell you I know many GOs (very senior officers) who would have a field day with the local LE Chief if this happened much to his troops. As a former commander I would go ballistic (no pun intended) if I continually had to vouch for the equipment as rightfully held by my married lower enlisted Soldiers, NCOs (E6 and above in most commands) and officers.

    The military usually works well with local LE when their is a shared concern and if equipment were at issue it would be known to all LEOs in the affected departments.
    64zebra likes this.

  10. #54
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    Besides they would have a memo for there gear and switchblades signed by their commander!!!!
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  11. #55
    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secret Spuk View Post
    LOL I'm not suggesting that an officer would, or should seize property. I'm just saying that it can and does happen. Military equipment is quite different than a set of ski's, or a lap-top. Ski's and lap-tops dont generate the same interest as military gear, or a lone vest. 99 times out of a hundred a simple explination ends all the mystery. Yet every now and then property has to be vouchered to determine true ownership. I've done it many times. Not that I was acting "Under color of local law"... or Doing what ever I pleased because I was the police... When I first graduated the academy, and went out by meyself on a foot post for the first time, the first job I handled in my career was a property dispute. Two men both claiming ownership of an ice cream cart. ( in november...I still aint figured that one out) One claimed he purchased it from someone else, the other claimed he built it with his own hands... So I vouchered the card to determine who was the true owner. The guy who says he built it showed up with pictures, and reciepts... he got the cart. Not a whole lot to do with the thread... but it does happen.

    As far as a ballistic vest... that in itself is a suspicious item. Not that they are prohibited... just cause for some suspicion. A little investigation. Given the choice the police will almost always take the side of caution. There is a huge problem with theft from the military. Any current military equipment outside a post, or military vehicle should be looked at closely by the police. If no obvious civil crime has been commited, and the Officer is not satisfied with the explination of why this GI equipment is off post... That requires some looking into. I'm not suggesting that mere possesion of a vest is grounds for seizing it... I'm talking about GI equipment.
    As A 1Sg I had many issues with soldiers and LEO,more than I cared too. Never once did a LEO even try to take any issued gear. This is one of those show me the facts . I do n't think any LEO would even try to . And I can tell you he has no right to. Every peace of gear a soldier has every peace of equipment in a company is signed for by the Company commander they then hand receipted down to the user level. It is the property on the US government and the CO is responsible for it as is the end user.
    None of the personal issued Items are illegal to have or own nor is there anyway for an officer to know it they are stolen or not so he would have no right to touch them.
    The only case where they could is if they were used in a crime.
    To take the property is a crime committed by LEO of course this would not be the first time that ever happen.
    I have a lot of issued equipment I own now do you want to try and take it? I own two vests one old style one new one a full set of TA50.
    Trust me on this if you take a soldiers issued items you will find out what it means to be in hot water. There are limits to that badge.

  12. #56
    Member Array Shiphted's Avatar
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    To be honest the US Army atleast where I have ever been required me to carry battle ready items in your vehicle in case of an emergency. So yes they can take it that I'd called stealing.


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