Todays Military...do you want this for your kid?

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  1. #31
    Member Array tricolordad's Avatar
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    The price you pay for electing an anti everything president...
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  3. #32
    New Member Array coyotemoon's Avatar
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    What about us guys in Viet Nam 61-65--body armor? bullets were the same then as they are now. GI T shirt didn't stop much.
    Why have all that fancy stuff, I rather carry more AMMO.

  4. #33
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    As far as the weapon issue I am curious when things changed. Back in the day a buddy of mine was a corpsman assigned to India battery I forget which MAU but he did a couple of Med cruises with them and was living off post at LeJeune. Back then corpsmen were considered "non combatants" and were not issued rifles. All they were authorized was sidearms as they were considered "defensive weapons".

    As far as the medical load out I would not be surprised if this was just for travel. Weight is fuel and fuel is dollars. If there are tons of stuff in theater already why pay more to fly a bunch of stuff in with him? I could see them issuing enough to deal with might be anticipated during travel and issue the rest of the stuff when he arrives.
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    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

  5. #34
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    No money? Then how did the army get all those cute little $8 mil-a-piece UAVs I just got through working with? Must have returned a LOT of mags to pay for that.
    Retired USAF E-8. Avatar is OldVet from days long gone. Oh, to be young again.
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  6. #35
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tricolordad View Post
    The price you pay for electing an anti everything president...
    Let me see how I can respond to this with being political and staying on topic. Aw yes. In my experience since 1984 when Reagan was in office (I was a crew member on OV-1 Mohawks) pilots complained about not enough flight time because of money (both fixed wing and rotor). Minimum amount of ammo was used for training. 40 rounds for qual, 9 for zero, and 6-12 for familiarization. Nope, not all units did night fire or with NBC equipment because it was too expensive. Units that were not fortunate enough to have a real direct mission (we were flying the DMZ) were even worse. Their waits for spare parts was longer than units that were categorized above them like we were and we still had to wait. Only combat arms started gettting the good stuff. Poly pro, gortex, and other toys. Unit budgets were tight to accomplish their mission. Even in combat arms the artillery seldom did as much live fire that was needed. Tankers were in the same boat. Firing live missiles from Cobra's and the new Apache was infrequent.

    When I left the army 6 years ago the combat support folks and service folks did not have all of the goodies that combat arms did until after we invaded Afghanistan and went into Iraq. And that was under two Bushes. So let's put it this way. Bush Jr. took us into two wars without the foresight to give the troops what they needed. Obama takes over a mess and you are saying he is the problem based of the OP which is second hand info. Got it. I was last at Bragg and MacDill 4 months ago (SOCOM and JSOC). Did not see folks complaining about not having stuff except the normal griping. Called a buddy of mine today at Bragg. He does not know about these huge shortages. Not saying there are none. But don't go blaming Obama for every little trouble in this country. I am not voting for him but he did not start this country on a downward spiral.

  7. #36
    Ex Member Array NotMallNinja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Let me see how I can respond to this with being political and staying on topic. Aw yes. In my experience since 1984 when Reagan was in office (I was a crew member on OV-1 Mohawks) pilots complained about not enough flight time because of money (both fixed wing and rotor). Minimum amount of ammo was used for training. 40 rounds for qual, 9 for zero, and 6-12 for familiarization. Nope, not all units did night fire or with NBC equipment because it was too expensive. Units that were not fortunate enough to have a real direct mission (we were flying the DMZ) were even worse. Their waits for spare parts was longer than units that were categorized above them like we were and we still had to wait. Only combat arms started gettting the good stuff. Poly pro, gortex, and other toys. Unit budgets were tight to accomplish their mission.

    When I left the army 6 years ago the combat support folks and service folks did not have all of the goodies that combat arms did until after we invaded Afghanistan and went into Iraq. And that was under two Bushes. So let's put it this way. Bush Jr. took us into two wars without the foresight to give the troops what they needed. Obama takes over a mess and you are saying he is the problem based of the OP which is second hand info. Got it. I was last at Bragg and MacDill 4 months ago (SOCOM and JSOC). Did not see folks complaining about not having stuff except the normal griping. Called a buddy of mine today at Bragg. He does not know about these huge shortages. Not saying there are none. But don't go blaming Obama for every little trouble in this country. I am not voting for him but he did not start this country on a downward spiral.


    Members of all armed forces, regardless of country, gripe. It is what wo do. Griping does not mean our gripes are accurate, we just like to gripe.
    Last edited by rstickle; August 23rd, 2012 at 07:51 AM. Reason: language
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  8. #37
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Oh, did I mention which President it was that under his watch he spent all the money so every soldier could feel special wearing a black beret? Then after realizing it was a stupid idea the Army then got rid of them for daily wear. Plus the fact they ticked off 99 percent of every Ranger and they had to switch to tan.

    Not Obama......

    Whew! Ok, my 2 post rant is over
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  9. #38
    Senior Member Array Spidey2011's Avatar
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    How about one of the presidential candidates donate some of the millions they spend slinging mud at each other? Give a couple million to ensure that our boys have some decent gear, and I'd give you my vote.

  10. #39
    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
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    Talk to The Commander and Chief it is he show he runs it .

  11. #40
    Senior Member Array Rotorblade's Avatar
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    The reality is, defense spending in the last 20 years has been all about buying the expensive sexy toys. That billion dollar stealth bomber is worthless when the Marines on the ground have to house to house.
    I believe the military of the future will be small, well equipped, highly trained ground units....not long range stealth bombers.
    To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the crocodile, hoping he will eat you last - but eat you he will.
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  12. #41
    Ex Member Array NotMallNinja's Avatar
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    Rotorblade:

    Department of Defense is focused on projection, i.e. Air Sea Battle.

  13. #42
    Senior Member Array Rotorblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotMallNinja View Post
    Rotorblade:

    Department of Defense is focused on projection, i.e. Air Sea Battle.
    Much of it is based on keeping the defense industry running, political favors to folks in states with large defense manufacturing plants and jobs. I'm not complaining as I've made a very good living in that industry for the last 30 years along with my wife who is a 25+ year employee with Boeing.
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    To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the crocodile, hoping he will eat you last - but eat you he will.
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  14. #43
    Ex Member Array NotMallNinja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rotorblade View Post
    Much of it is based on keeping the defense industry running, political favors to folks in states with large defense manufacturing plants and jobs. I'm not complaining as I've made a very good living in that industry for the last 30 years along with my wife who is a 25+ year employee with Boeing.
    I'm politically astute enough to understand why certain decisions have been/are made and that is what makes serving so frustrating at times!

  15. #44
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rotorblade View Post
    The reality is, defense spending in the last 20 years has been all about buying the expensive sexy toys. That billion dollar stealth bomber is worthless when the Marines on the ground have to house to house.
    I believe the military of the future will be small, well equipped, highly trained ground units....not long range stealth bombers.
    I agree and disagree. Iraq did not need one ground troop...not one. If the point was to keep Saddam contained the AF and Navy air assets were all that was needed. Afghanistans needed only a six month operation to accomplish the stated strategic goal of ridding the country of Al Queda and overthrowing the Taliban. Capturing or killing Bin Laden would just be icing on the cake. But should not have been a reason to stay that long.

    So yes, we need both. And the C in C does not and should not micromanage down to the squad level. No president IMO has ever done well as far as reeling in the big spending appropriations which is a big problem.

    One thing folks foget about. A lot of retirement pays and other pays come out of the DOD budget. So the more troops we have and retire and the longer they live the more money is needed to just sustain non combat expenditures.

    As far as a major war with a real power (China). We would need the Airforce and Navy and the sexy toys as much as the ground troops.

    Besides...where else do you want to start trouble? How many places do we need to keep sending ground troops? What for...
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  16. #45
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    I never served in the military (and for those who did/do... my undying respect and gratitude for whatever you did and wherever you did it) ...

    I do like history.

    Red Blooded Americans (before they were even US citizens, 'cause there was no U.S.) beat the pulp out of the most well equipped army in the world at the time... (okay... okay... we had a little hep from the FR...FR...oh, heck with it...the French).

    We can always do that (and we don't need them Fr... Fre... well, you know who I mean).

    But, why do we waste blood and treasure on any war that is not about our sovereignty?

    simplifying greatly...

    We had our Vietnam...
    Russia had it Afghanistan
    And we went into Afghanistan to prove what, that we could win a war the Russkies couldn't? Huh?

    Oh sure, the twin towers and all that (for an interesting look at that and the aftermath see the book in my sig line)... oh yeah, and nation building...

    The S is HTF here at home... and we're peeing money and blood in a never ending litter box of sand over there... let 'em build their own nations...

    We took out the offenders that we put prices on... let the people over there do what they want with their country.

    I know, and have friends who have served over there that talk about all the good they are doing and have done...

    But in this country we got one in four kids who experience hunger... (no... REAL hunger)... And we got too many unemployed... and we got no infrastructure left... and ... and ... and....

    and all I see is all that sand ... soakin' up our blood... our money... our men and women...

    I want the finest, best equipped military in the WORLD... But I don't want it wasted playing Keystone Cops.

    And, if you're gonna send our kids, men, and women over there you better dang well make double dang certain they have the effing best of everything they need to do their individual jobs (no "toys" for the cooks, and the clerks, etc.). An get 'em home alive and let them over there deal with theirownselves...

    Sorry... I'm just tired of trying to fix everybody else when this country is a broke(n) as it is.
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