Todays Military...do you want this for your kid? - Page 5

Todays Military...do you want this for your kid?

This is a discussion on Todays Military...do you want this for your kid? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Xader Would the M4 be more useful? In many situations, sure! But the M16 is still an effective fighting weapon, and will ...

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Thread: Todays Military...do you want this for your kid?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xader View Post
    Would the M4 be more useful? In many situations, sure! But the M16 is still an effective fighting weapon, and will still do the job. Just ask a Marine.

    Is it ideal? No, but many have been effective with far worse...
    True. Just ask any iPod owner--if it ain't the latest and greatest, it's just no good.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield


  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis1209 View Post
    I can sure tell many of you are not aware of "today's Army".

    My son is an Army Scout and presently stationed at Ft. Benning, GA., served a year combat tour in Iraq, and is making a career in the military. As a parent, I guess I get a little more inside information than is released to the general public?

    Recently he came home for a visit and brought some of his TA-50 gear with him to show me. I began to quiz him about items I was issued with my TA-50 when I fought in the Civil War. Come to find out, he's had many shortages in essential equipment for well over a year, and was short during his deployment in Iraq.

    I started looking over his issue and immediately noticed it was of a quality I wouldn't take on a hunting trip! I can't imagine it meeting military specifications? Then he goes on to tell me, if you want the good stuff, you have to purchase it on your own.

    I'll give you just ONE example, boots. An Army marches on it's belly and feet, and foot wear, next to your weapon, is the most important piece of equipment in combat. Having the same size feet as my son, I wore those brown desert pieces of issued crap for an hour to see how they felt. The quality and fit seemed to be factory fourths and a waste of cowhide. Then I tried on his brown desert boots he purchased for $80.00 out of pocket. Those were fit for extended use.

    There's no doubt in my former military mind, the government is skimping and shirking its duty to properly cloth and equip our troops to meet / exceed combat criteria.

    Anyone remember the out cry of all our troops getting killed and maimed from IED'S due to no / insufficient armor on the vehicles, the American concern of the military penny pinching, and the organizations that funded, purchased and installed additional vehicle armor on military vehicles? Is your sons / daughters future quality of life and survivability of an IED worth a few more fiat dollars of the out of control printing presses worth it?

    The soldier gets a small pittance monthly for uniform maintenance, etc.

    It's a disgrace the richest and most powerful nation on earth sends it's combat troops in harms way ill equipped to accomplish it's fighting mission. And because of penny pinching, not providing the best equipment / materials made to insure our troops have the best chance of victory and survival.

    What gets me... You can sit on your lazy butt, complain about your living conditions and how you're owed, collecting food stamps, Section 8 housing, WIC, Aid to Families with Children, Welfare, etc... And the government calls it an ENTITLEMENT!

    Our troops are fighting for our freedoms, so we can rest peacefully at night, get up in the morning and speak ENGLISH to our loved ones, and that the lazy can still sit around complaining about they need moe tax payer money their entitled to.

    What are our nations military troops ENTITLED to?

    Sorry about the rant, but when you have a horse in the race, you tend to get that way.
    Good thing we have that "lowest bidder gets the contract" policy, huh?
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  3. #63
    VIP Member Array slugger6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    Its not that the Government doesn't have the money. The problem is what they want to spend it on. They will spend it wherever it will purchase the most votes for their reelection
    A profound statement!
    "What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

  4. #64
    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xader View Post
    Would the M4 be more useful? In many situations, sure! But the M16 is still an effective fighting weapon, and will still do the job. Just ask a Marine.

    Is it ideal? No, but many have been effective with far worse...
    I spent 27 years in the infantry, two sons with 16-17 years in I do not know of any infantry soldier that would take an M16 over the current M4 version at any time or anywhere.
    There maybe one out there but he is in hiding.
    sparkykb likes this.

  5. #65
    Senior Member Array Dennis1209's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5spdvr6 View Post
    I've been lurking and reading on this website for quite some time now and have yet to post, but I am intrigued with reading this and think my input might be enlightening for some of you guys.

    At the moment I am a volunteer in the paratroopers of the Israeli Defense Force (I am actually on guard duty as we speak). I am an American citizen born and raised in Alabama and have always loved and had great respect and interest in the United States military. I even believe the Marine Corps is in my future when I return.

    On to my point... I think Americans have a somewhat spoiled view on the military and what is and should be expected. Is that a bad thing? Absolutely not. I think that a country should provide its protectors and those that are put in danger in it's name to the upmost it can afford.

    The vast majority of citizens here in Israel are forced to join the military at the age of 18 and do so because the country simply wouldn't exist otherwise. The surrounding countries which vastly outnumber it in bodies and resources openly wish for its destruction and the country is essentially always at war in some form or another, be it rockets coming from Gaza or Lebanon, or the constant threat of terrorist attack on its own soil.

    To refer to the Rumsfeld quote earlier, Israel at all times has to work with what it has simply because it can afford nothing else. The entire military is built on hand-me-downs from the American army. For the first 8 months of my service I was given an m16, and although it was a hybrid of who knows how many guns, the serial number on the lower dated back to 1967 iirc. Our APCs are American hand me down and I find parts in there from the 60's-70's.

    Granted now I have my M4 and many of my friends have the new Tavor(some love it; others hate it), most of the army is built on a framework that dates back to the 80s. Our Hummers are used American bits that date back to who knows when; let's just say I hope we never see a RPG or IED, because the outcome would be ugly.

    Combat soldiers here get paid a whopping $175ish a month, and that's more than the rest of the lot. Forget post army benefits. For three years these kids live like American soldiers live when they are deployed, not in the sense of danger, but in lifestyle and amenities. I haven't seen a weight room on a base since I left training, I live in an underground bunker with no ventilation next to the room with the back up generator that wreaks of gasoline. You get hurt or sick, the medic is at the outpost a mile and a half from here, so you can walk over and hope he is there. If you are actually messed up good and need a real doctor, you get an appointment in a few days in the army run office on the other side of the country. There is a funny saying here in the Israeli army for any/all injuries: "be strong, drink water".

    Moral of the story here is that what American troops have is hands down the best situation in the world. Could it be better? Always. But kids here could only dream of serving in a military like America's, but unfortunately that isn't a choice. I think the whole situation here is different when viewed in perspective.

    Bryan
    Bryan,

    I can't disagree with one word in your post, and thank you for reminding us of our current fortune.

    Israel is the "Apple of God's Eye" and it's survival is assured as a nation by His word. I only hope our country maintains it's support for Israel and not turn our back on her. Rest assured, no matter what transpires, Israel is in much better hands than that of the U.S.

    Now speaking of America, our sons and daughters serving in the military in harms way. Supposedly the richest debtor nation on earth, able to provide the lazy generational welfare people a living without any work, spending billions of dollars in public aid, housing, food, utilities, diapers, etc. And can't / won't spend a few extra dollars per troop for better equipment / protection for our sons and daughters in combat to protect our way of life?

    The surprise Israeli "Six Day War" should be just one obvious example of divine intervention. Much less, the only nation ever in recorded history to be scatter through out the world and come back as a nation un-blemished officially May 14, 1948. And to be predicted centuries in advance just reading the #1 best selling book of all time? Go figure?

    I realize Israel gets "hand-me-downs" from the U.S. but, I have a vested interest on what our American sons and daughters are issued for combat. It hits home when one of our loved ones is killed or maimed, and a few dollars more would have probably saved them from death or a life long injury.

    It makes no sense to me at all to squander billions on lazy trash, and penny pinch protective armament and equipment for those protecting trash and their generational welfare cycle?

    /Rant OFF
    Rotorblade and thephanatik like this.
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  6. #66
    Senior Member Array Rotorblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 64zebra View Post
    Rotorblade....you get in touch with your nephew when he gets in theater and let us know if he got geared up properly

    if not I'll start the DC care package to send him
    Appreciate that!
    I'm hoping that as some previous posters said, he can "trade up" to better gear when he hits the ground over there.
    Think of it this way.......how much grunt gear can you buy with a over a billion dollars (the cost of 2 B-2 Stealth Bombers).
    For those that will say "Gee whiz...we need those bombers if we go to war with China"...well really, if we go to war with China, how long to you think that will last as we both have nuclear capabilities.
    To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the crocodile, hoping he will eat you last - but eat you he will.
    Ronald Reagan

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rotorblade View Post
    Last weekend while traveling from Las Vegas to Southern California I stopped at a Bob's Big Boy in Baker (a small roadside town near Death Valley in the middle of the desert). There were 4 or 5 bus loads of US Army troops eating at the fast food stops in town. They were all wearing camo which seemed a little odd as the nearest active military base is the Marine Logistics center in Yermo. I asked one where they were heading and he said Denver. I then asked him where they originated from and he said a base in Northern California. When I asked why the Army didn't just fly them to Denver he just shrugged his shoulders and got back on the bus.
    Is this really how we treat our solders now? The Government wants to give everybody free contraceptives but doesn't have a problem making these kids do a 3 day bus ride!
    But wait, there's more..........
    I just got off the phone with my nephew who is a Navy Corpsman, he recently was assigned to SOCOM and just finished his SEAR training. He is shipping out to Afghanistan in 3 days and tells me he won't be getting the tricked out M4 or the Springfield 45 as they "ran out" and there is "no budget" for new ones. He will be issued the M-9 ( and I'm assuming an M-16) instead, but......they don't have enough magazines so he has to buy his own!!!!! Also, his med bag or whatever they call them now will only have about 25% of the stuff he is supposed to have when he deploys.....once again...no budget.
    This is total BS. I guess I've always assumed that our kids had the best equipment money could buy when they deployed...this was quite an eye opener.
    Real Disappointed.....
    Of course, the military needs to pay for important things like the maid service for the officer and snco barracks. Let me tell you I loved seeing maids at those barracks at lejuane while I was driving to the px to buy my own gear (having just left my own cockroach and black mold infested barracks room).

  8. #68
    Distinguished Member Array Ghettokracker71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stanislaskasava View Post
    Our national budget similar to those people you see at the grocery store, buying things with foodstamps -- and then you recognize them as the people who parked next to you in the new SUV with big chrome wheels and loud stereo. All kinds of money for EVERYTHING BUT the necessities.
    Its also a common theme in the auto repair industry. Family comes in with a Mercedes/Lexus/BMW/etc, kids have brand name from head to toe carrying iPads/gameboys/laptops/ipods/etc, dad is wearing all name brand from head to toe and toting a new smart phone, mom has a coach purse, gucci sunglasses and name brand head to toe, also with a smart phone ...after they go off on you because their oil change costs HOW MUCH? (because often higher end vehicles require full-syn oil, and/or hold large quantities of oil which requires a surcharge to cover the costs.) then we have to call them because their tires(or brakes, or whatever) are worn slam out, they aren't safe or legal(based on VSI standards.) anymore and need replacement,...then you mention price. They yell, scream and go on and on about how ridiculously expensive they are, and they are going to go buy used ones,...Two months later? Same family comes in with the same car wearing the same worn out tires, or chinese off-brands that don't even meet the speed and load ratings for the car and aren't safe for that vehicle Scary


    Comes down to priority. I feel sorry for the children that will have to deal with this mess yet when it was all happening they were too young to understand it or weren't even born yet!


    "To blame a gun for a mans decision is to foolishly attribute free will to an inanimate object"- Colion Noir.

  9. #69
    Ex Member Array CaveJohnson's Avatar
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    This type of thing isn't new, remember the up-armored Humvee debacle around 2003-2006?

    There's always a shortage of something, and no offense but it's not because of contraceptives.

  10. #70
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    Last year i started going to the VA for my medical care; my disability rating is 80 percent. The VA has changed drastically on the watch of General Shinseki. There are more doctors, specialists, nurses and support personnel. The entire attitude of the VA hospital in OK City has changed. The place no longer has the atmosphere of a mortuary.

    Anyone here remember David Chu, the Bush military manpower guru. Chu told the Wall St. Journal veterans benefits are "hurtful" to national security".

    Reprinted by Permission of Dow Jones WebReprint Service

    "The amounts have gotten to the point where they are hurtful. They are taking away from the nation's ability to defend itself," says David Chu, the Pentagon's undersecretary for personnel and readiness.
    By most accounts war in Iraq cost about one trillion dollars. Actuaries say that caring for the dependents of those killed in Iraq and caring for those wounded in Iraq will cost 2.5-3 trillion dollars. There is a message here for politicians in DC. Mr./Mrs. Political Hack, if you can't afford your optional war then don't start your war.
    Sticks likes this.

  11. #71
    Distinguished Member Array lchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    Its not that the Government doesn't have the money. The problem is what they want to spend it on. They will spend it wherever it will purchase the most votes for their reelection.

    Michael
    This is why we need term limits. It will get politicians out of continuous re-election mode...at least for the last term. The fewer terms for the limit, the better.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rotorblade View Post
    The reality is, defense spending in the last 20 years...
    Longer than that. Much longer.

  13. #73
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    Longer than that. Much longer.
    Bingo!!
    President Eisenhower warned of the military industrial complex in 1961.

    Ike warned of 'military-industrial complex' 50 years ago

    In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

    We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted.

    Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

  14. #74
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    I'm biased (20 years of military service), and I've seen all the debacles of $50,000 acft toilet seats and $25,000 hammers, but in the end I realize all that "wasted" government money is paying a lot of paychecks--paychecks that pay taxes, buy products, pay mortgages, buy dinners in the little Mom & Pop dinners, and so forth.

    To cut defense spend is to go back to training our troops with wooden guns, shooting at trucks with "Tank" painted on the sides. We have to face it: A P-38 Lightning cost $10,000 in WWII. That amount isn't going to buy an F-22 today. Nearly all the bases I knew of during my career have been closed or severely reduced in size and mission. It kills me to see the satellite views of the Boneyard and the millions of dollars of aircraft waiting to be cut up into scrap.

    There are a lot of things that could be cut prior to cutting the defense budget, starting with all the foreign aid to countries that climb the embassy walls and tear down the American flag.
    But I don't hear that from either presidential candidate.
    thephanatik likes this.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  15. #75
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    I'm biased (20 years of military service), and I've seen all the debacles of $50,000 acft toilet seats and $25,000 hammers, but in the end I realize all that "wasted" government money is paying a lot of paychecks--paychecks that pay taxes, buy products, pay mortgages, buy dinners in the little Mom & Pop dinners, and so forth.

    To cut defense spend is to go back to training our troops with wooden guns, shooting at trucks with "Tank" painted on the sides. We have to face it: A P-38 Lightning cost $10,000 in WWII. That amount isn't going to buy an F-22 today. Nearly all the bases I knew of during my career have been closed or severely reduced in size and mission. It kills me to see the satellite views of the Boneyard and the millions of dollars of aircraft waiting to be cut up into scrap.

    There are a lot of things that could be cut prior to cutting the defense budget, starting with all the foreign aid to countries that climb the embassy walls and tear down the American flag.
    But I don't hear that from either presidential candidate.
    Why do we need the F-22 Raptor?
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

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