12 lb. trigger common in law enforcement?
This is a discussion on 12 lb. trigger common in law enforcement? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; There's a current thread about the recent Empire State incident that puts some portion of blame on the 12 lb trigger that's apparently standard for ...
September 2nd, 2012 08:13 AM
12 lb. trigger common in law enforcement?
There's a current thread about the recent Empire State incident that puts some portion of blame on the 12 lb trigger that's apparently standard for the NYPD duty weapons. Not even in my worse dreams have I considered a trigger that stiff. I didn't know they made them.
Yesterday I was helping the neighbors get hay in the barn. One of their field "recruits" was a local LEO that they know. During a break in the shade he and I were discussing firearms (couldnt talk about women since our wives were there) and he casually mentioned that the Sig he had been issued was a great gun but it had the 12 lb trigger that his department required. We agreed that a trigger like that would give great groupings if the broad side of a barn was the intended target.
LEO's on the forum.....how many of you guys are stuck with this lawyers trigger?
What if the Hokey Pokey IS what it's all about?
September 2nd, 2012 09:27 AM
Seems like most DA pistols have heavy pull for the DA, then lighter for SA (assumes DA/SA pistol versus DAO). Either way, the DA pull should be smooth, but heavy, IMHO, especially for duty pistols. A five-pound pull (DA, not SA) in a high stress situation could easily lead to a ND. JMHO, of course......
Last edited by Chevy-SS; September 2nd, 2012 at 11:35 AM.
Reason: Clarifying: five-pound pull (DA, not SA)
'Be careful, even in small matters' - Miyamoto Musashi
September 2nd, 2012 09:40 AM
the 12 lb. trigger was invented for NYC because they had so many ND's. NYC Leo is required to by their own guns so about 1994-5 when the 38's were being phased out cops started buying Glock because of the price and rep. but they had a high number of ND's so someone came up with a trigger system the reduced the ND's and are now required. Under stress the system would work for some but as we can see it also has a negative side
Last edited by barstoolguru; September 2nd, 2012 at 11:58 AM.
September 2nd, 2012 10:26 AM
No LEO around here with a Glock uses anything but the stock trigger.
The NYCPD has their own trigger because they are "special".
If it does its a training issue.
A five-pound pull in a high stress situation could easily lead to a ND
hecks...the next step towards registration and confiscation.
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September 2nd, 2012 10:50 AM
Stock triggers on our Sig P228/229s - 10lb (but VERY smooth) DA pull followed by 4.4lb SA pull.
A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.
September 2nd, 2012 12:10 PM
I carried a 1911 with a 5lb trigger for a decade. Most departments today that issue Glocks do so with the stock 5 lb trigger and the S&W M&P's trigger is in the same ballpark.
"There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)
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September 2nd, 2012 12:41 PM
Sadly my agency has burdened us with an 8lbs trigger....I hate it.
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September 2nd, 2012 12:46 PM
My 220 breaks about 10lb DA, and just over 4lbs SA. It's a great trigger, no complaints. That 12lb trigger has to suck. Trust me, the boots on the ground didnt come up with that one...
Next on the wishlist... Having to unlock your trigger with your handcuff key prior to firing a round. No, trust us, its safer.
September 2nd, 2012 01:01 PM
I always shot better with the Revolver than the Pistols. Every pull was the same, you could stage the trigger. I now carry a glock with every trigger pull the same and I think I shoot better than I did with the DA/SA pistols.
I think the problem in NYC was moving and shooting at the same time. Most departments do not train for that, and it is the way most shootings happen.
"Lets Be Careful Out There!"
September 2nd, 2012 02:20 PM
It's not really the weight as the smoothness that causes trouble. Its nice to be a contractor now, it my gun, my trigger.....
My last issue gun was the P2000 LEM and it was probably in the 7-8 lb range.
My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.
"The way of the warrior does not include other ways.....But if you know the way broadly you will see it in everything"
- Miyamoto Musashi -
September 2nd, 2012 05:36 PM
The reason the Sigma pistol has its heavy trigger pull is to duplicate the DA pull.
September 3rd, 2012 04:49 AM
Back in the day, when we carried revolvers 12 lbs was about normal. NYPD uses the NY1 trigger which is 8.5 lbs (my preference). The NY2 is 12 lbs
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September 3rd, 2012 05:11 AM
Since your finger should not be on the trigger unless you're ready to shoot someone why would a five-pound pull (let alone at 2 or 3 pound one) lead to a negligent discharge? Even if one's finger was on the trigger they should not be pulling the trigger to any degree until willing to shoot what they are aiming at...
Originally Posted by Chevy-SS
September 3rd, 2012 06:24 PM
I work for one of the largest police departments in the USA. There is no across-the-board trigger pull weight requirement, just a policy that forbids lighter pull weights than factory spec. Currently-approved primary duty pistols include DA/SA and DAK SIGs, Glocks, and the M&P40. A wide range of other handguns are still OK if "grandfathered" by senior officers.
I want to respectfully disagree with those who say a 12-pound trigger will result in a miss. That is the typical pull weight of a fully-sprung DA revolver, and plenty of live and dry fire makes it seem easier, mostly because one's hands get stronger. Now, if there are hitches in the trigger's git-along, that can induce a unsteady muzzle, but a clean, smooth 12-pound trigger pull is quite workable. I started policin' in 1984, when we still had to start with a stock 4" S&W, Colt, or Ruger DA revolver. One of my absolute favorite carry guns, today, is a stock S&W Model 19-5, that I bought recently during a moment of strong nostalgia. The mainspring strain screw is fully tightened, and the springs are stock. I installed fairly small Uncle Mike's rubberized boot grips, so I can get a really good grip on the weapon, and have good leverage to stroke the trigger. Life is
Two of my Ruger SP101 snubbies were customized with Jack Weigand's "Tame the Beast" package, and do have lighter springs. I have another snubby SP101, and a 3-1/16" SP101, that have stock springs. I see no appreciable difference in accuracy between the custom and stock Rugers. I did select my stock Rugers, handling many, in order to find smooth triggers, with no burrs or other hitches in the pull.
I did not mean this to seem like a rant; just sayin' that I am not hindered by a 12-pound pull. I like my Les Baer 1911's light, crisp trigger, too. Of course, the single-action pull is a bit less fatiguing if shooting hundreds of rounds. It is all good!
September 3rd, 2012 10:10 PM
Obviously everyone here has knowledge of firearms but to criticize a ND in a high stress environment while never being in one is something you shouldn't do. As for myself the situation of stress will greatly vary firefight to firefight. While I was in afghanistan and have been in more firefights that I can imagine properly trained people can always have accidents. When adrenaline is flowing and deadly accuracy comes into play the trigger pull won't matter. Know your gun, train with your gun, and hopefully when that stress happens all that training will pay off and you will come out alive with a big toe and no ND!
My 2c of rambling....
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