Houston man shot by police in group home

This is a discussion on Houston man shot by police in group home within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by mcp1810 Ok you quote Wikipedia I will quote the FBI. Which would you rather go to court with? Maybe a general rule ...

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Thread: Houston man shot by police in group home

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    Ok you quote Wikipedia I will quote the FBI. Which would you rather go to court with?
    Maybe a general rule of thumb, but not a rule....A standard Ill give you....
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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  3. #32
    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
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    Over the weekend, police said that the wheelchair-bound man was acting aggressively and had tried to stab an officer with a pen.
    He lost an arm and a leg
    Man in a wheel they could not get out.
    The incident was the second shooting involving Marin.

    In October 2009, he shot and killed a knife-wielding man who stabbed his girlfriend and a neighbor, according to published reports at the time. Marin joined the Houston Police Department in 2007.

    Need we say anything?

  4. #33
    Member Array JayTee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    What would we being talking about if instead of an officer involved shooting it was you or me that took the shot? Say we encounter this same disabled person with the same pen or stabbing type weapon who says that he is going to kill us or even just rob us. Would we say using deadly force to end the situation would be permissible? Would the same officials who might be backing this officers decision back us?

    Michael
    To answer your question...not a chance in hell! If you or I shot a man in the head like the officer did, a man with ONE ARM and ONE LEG in a WHEELCHAIR because we felt "threatened", I have no doubt in my mind whatsoever that we'd be sitting behind bars facing murder charges with the media and the general public absolutely crucifying us. Anyone that believes different is not living in the real world.

    Further, think about the thousands upon thousands of nurses and caretakers out there that deal with the mentally ill on a daily basis. Mentally ill people that aren't in wheelchairs and have both arms and legs. Now think about how many times those nurses and caretakers are "threatened", attacked, or "cornered" on a continual basis. How do they deal with that situation? Do they pull out a gun and shoot the patients in the head?? NO THEY DO NOT.

    I'm sorry, I just cannot see how this shoot was in any way shape or form justified.

  5. #34
    Member Array BroBud's Avatar
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    In my opinion this is a bad shoot. It would seem a less than lethal approach could have been used. Everyone loses in this one, sad.
    mr.stuart and RichB70 like this.
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  6. #35
    Member Array minimalbrat's Avatar
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    I do have to wonder why the officer didn't pull the wheel chair away from the other officer instead of shooting the man. We don't know the layout of the area but if he could get the chair in the area I would think it could have been pulled out.
    Our House Is Protected By The Good Lord And A gun. You Might Meet Both Of Them If You Show Up Inside My House Uninvited.

  7. #36
    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    We have a guy that has one arm and one leg, He corned one of the officers. I think if I were his partner I would have grabbed the wheel chair pulled it back and tipped him out of his chair. Then cuff him. After reading the article I personally believe that this particular officer was in the wrong. My opinion is based on what we have at the current time.
    With only one arm and one leg, that would probably be a pretty interesting cuff position.
    "The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come." ~ Confucius

  8. #37
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    I wasn't there,
    Therefore I'm keeping my cake-hole shut.

    Video would help, but then again,
    If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.

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  9. #38
    Distinguished Member Array dangerranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glhadiator View Post
    I don't know the details and I don't normally like to make a call in a case like this. However I feel this was a bad shoot. LE cannot just willy nilly shoot people because it's better than incuring some sort of risk. I have a great respect for LEOs because their job requires they take a certain amount of risk. They must put themselves in harms way to do their job. No different than a soldier, sailor or even a football player!

    I don't judge LE in this case. I judge the officer who took the shot. IMHO it was a bad shot.

    This is one of those cases where no matter what they did some one is going to be upset. But how much risk should he have to take? A couple of stabs with a pen? Possibly losing an eye? A few stitches from being rammed with a wheel chair? The truth is it was his duty to respond! He has the same right to self defense as we do. And in a split second decision he chose to defend his partner! I would hope any partner of mine would do the same. DR

  10. #39
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    More on the news tonight.
    Retired FBI agent defends officer in shooting of double amputee | khou.com Houston
    I can't find a link to the video yet but the shelter manager said the manager on duty used a cordless phone to call 9-1-1 and he and the calltaker could not hear each other over the static. He said he was unable to make the calltaker aware that the deceased had mental health issues. He also commented on how quick and agile he was in the chair. Hopefully they will post the video soon so everyone can see it.
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  11. #40
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

  12. #41
    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
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    Fully functional armed Police Officer vs. Wheelchair bound one armed, one legged man... Talk about your disparity of force. Unless the EDP was armed with a firearm, or even an edged weapon... I cant see this as a legitimate shooting. The defenders of the Officers actions are stating what the EDP could have done. Well NEWS FLASH!!! you cant kill someone for what they could do! I for one dont want to live in a police state. IMO There is no excuse for the use of deadly physical force excessively. Especially by trained professionals we pay to protect us.


    Having spent the greater part of my adult life as a police officer, I feel as qualified as anyone to comment. Having been in similar situations many times, and dealing with them without the use of deadly force. Knowing hundreds of other officers who have done the same, I have issue with this incident. While the Officer is ultimately responsible for his actions, I also hold his department liable. I'm sure the officer acted as he was trained, and used the tools given to him by the department. I'd wonder if his department has realistic prociedure, or equipment for dealing with this or a similar situation. In policing, Officers are required to deal with emotionally disturbed people all the time. All officers are or should be familiar with the term, or at least the possibility of what we called "PSYCHO STRENGTH" where an EDP exhibits greater than normal human strength. As they should be aware that EDP's are often uneffected by less than lethal devices like tasers, and O/C. I'm not saying that the police should never use deadly force on EDP's there are always exceptions, and that use of force is going to be scrutinized a lot more closely. If left to their own devices, and personal equipment Officers are being set up for failure by their department. There are a lot of reasonable ways of dealing with people experiencing emotional problems who become violent or display aggressive behaviour.
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  13. #42
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    This is what PoliceOne.com says about the retired FBI agent that is qoted in the Houston article.:
    Chuck Joyner was employed by the CIA from 1983 to1987, and was a Special Agent with the FBI from 1987 until his retirement in October 2011. Chuck is the creator of the Dynamic Resistance Response Model (DRRM), a modern Use of Force model. He currently is the President of Survival Sciences, LLC, offering training and expert testimony to law enforcement on use of force topics.
    The part in bold means he is an "expert witness" according to his companies website. I would be curious as to whom he is the witness for in most cases. I hate assuming but am going out on a limb that he testifies for LE since that is who he trains and makes his money from. Not saying the man is biased but too me when you combine "retired" with someone that is president of a company that works with a certain group of people brings a certain amount of skepticism to my mind.

    Too many experts are on TV on all sides of issues with agendas.
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  14. #43
    New Member Array CobraPace's Avatar
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    The Houston police department has a program to train officers on dealing with mentaly ill people.
    At first glance with not knowing all the details, it does not seem to be a good shoot. The public will never hear all the details, so a informed decision cannot be made. Being a arm chair quaterback, there are numerous things that could have been done and not shoot the guy. The activists that are protesting the shooting are only there so they can see and hear themselves on TV and to possible make a buck.
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  15. #44
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty901 View Post
    In October 2009, he shot and killed a knife-wielding man who stabbed his girlfriend and a neighbor, according to published reports at the time. Marin joined the Houston Police Department in 2007.

    Need we say anything?
    Actually, yes. One incident has nothing to do with the other. Additionally, why would he not shoot a knife-wielding man who has stabbed multiple people? This just shows that he justifiably recognizes the lethality of a knife and reacts accordingly.

  16. #45
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayTee View Post
    To answer your question...not a chance in hell! If you or I shot a man in the head like the officer did, a man with ONE ARM and ONE LEG in a WHEELCHAIR because we felt "threatened", I have no doubt in my mind whatsoever that we'd be sitting behind bars facing murder charges with the media and the general public absolutely crucifying us. Anyone that believes different is not living in the real world.
    True, but we [should] know better than the uneducated, illogical, utopic masses out there.

    Further, think about the thousands upon thousands of nurses and caretakers out there that deal with the mentally ill ... Do they pull out a gun and shoot the patients in the head?? NO THEY DO NOT.
    "According to a Bureau of Labor Statistics analysis published last year, almost 60% of assaults in the workplace occurred in a health care setting. Nearly three-quarters of these assaults were by patients or residents of a health facility." ... "The Joint Commission, a national accrediting agency, soberly noted last year that “health care institutions today are confronting steadily increasing rates of crime, including violent crimes such as assault, rape and homicide." ... " According to a 2010 survey from the Emergency Nurses Association, ... one in four reported being assaulted more than 20 times over the past three years." ...
    (80% of nurses were subject to violent crime during their career). For psychiatrists, the rate was 68.2 per 1000. For custodial staff, the rate was 69 per 1000. "

    Just because a healthcare worker who is violently attacked does not pull out a gun to defend themselves b/c their employer or legislators denied them the right to do so does not mean in any way that they would not be justified in doing so if given the opportunity.

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