Seattle police shooting ignites debate

This is a discussion on Seattle police shooting ignites debate within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Thunder71 Almost sounds like suicide by cop to me... he set the scene and acted it out. The only question I have ...

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Thread: Seattle police shooting ignites debate

  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array Toorop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder71 View Post
    Almost sounds like suicide by cop to me... he set the scene and acted it out.

    The only question I have is, during a 911 call is there time or the ability to find about about the caller prior to arrival? Is it ever protocol to check criminal/medical background?

    These are just questions I have... if anyone knows the answer, thank you.
    Medical records are private.

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  3. #17
    Distinguished Member Array Toorop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    Tragic and preventable. I blame the family, not the police, on several counts. First they knew he suffered from dementia and Alzheimer Disease, yet they left him with guns in his possession. Secondly, with the 2 problems he suffered from, he should not have been living on his own. The police had no way of knowing about the problems. They are confronted by an armed man who refused to follow directions, and then pointed the gun at them. They did what they had to do. IMO.
    They have no right to disarm the man. He has every right to defend himself whether he has Alzheimer's or not and the family has no right to tell him how to live his life. The family is not at fault and neither are the police.

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    I sat back and watched 2 officers try to get a guy to put a shotgun down........ even though he occassionally swung it around and wasn't watching muzzle control at all, he didn't do it in a threatening manner . He had pulled the gun out and called 911 because someone was trying to break into his house. He was no threat to the police, if you knew him. But, he can't hear squat without his hearing aids and it was late and he didn't have them in....... it would have been stupid and a real shame if they would have used bad judgement and shot him.

    When they finally got the point across to him ...... he said "oh hell, forgot I had this in my arms" .... and quickly put it on the ground, apologizing 100 times for it to the police officers. It took them about 40 minutes to get to that point, and didn't want to get too close to him during that period, but close enough. 4

    Any "good" police officer doesn't respond only in black and white .... you do this then I shoot you. They are good at analyzing and assessing ... and are aware they may meet people that are senile, have dementia, can't hear, or may have other issues..... none of which are life threatening. But , there are those who don't engage their brain, don't analyze, don't assess and make bad judgments as a result. And sometimes, it's hard to tell ..... and they will take the side of their safety, which it is hard to blame them for doing.
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    Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    He [resident] comes to the door of his house holding a gun. He does not respond to repeated commands [by police] to drop the gun. Instead, he raises the muzzle toward the police. They fire.
    A pretty fool-proof way to get shot, IMO. Point a gun at someone with apparent manifest intent to fire, and you get what you get.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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  6. #20
    Member Array _Hawkeye_'s Avatar
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    I must know why the police came to his door in order to answer. I read the article. I believe this shooting was within the law.
    English is my second language, I have been told my use of it is harsh, apologies if this is the matter.

    You know what stops a bad guy with a gun? A good guy with a gun

  7. #21
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    It was HIS house. The cops should have put THEIR guns down. That is all I will say as my honest thoughts won't go over well on this forum.

  8. #22
    Distinguished Member Array BigStick's Avatar
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    The "problem" is that the Seattle police have been having use of force / abuse issues in the news lately, so the public is upset. And we are all trained to believe that cops are super heroes and can not make mistakes with thier guns, that is why they are the only people who should have them. So people then assume that it was a choice/decision made by these particular officers that is to blame.

    This is part of the brainwashing that the media didn't see coming. Call the cops when you have problems. That's always the answer. They just forgot that even when you call the cops, things don't always turn out good.

    Any rational person will not blame the officers for protecting themselves, and I doubt anyone other than the homeowner regrets what happened more than the officers will for the rest of their lives. Now we just need to get the media to leave them alone.
    Walk softly ...

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toorop View Post
    They have no right to disarm the man. He has every right to defend himself whether he has Alzheimer's or not and the family has no right to tell him how to live his life. The family is not at fault and neither are the police.
    So someone with Alzheimers or dementia is of their right mind? Then also so is someone drunk, on drugs, mentally deficient, etc. In any civilized society, there must be some limitations. Otherwise, you get, well, the Middle East.
    BurgerBoy likes this.
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    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    He raised a gun at cops after he was told the police would be responding. There Was no choice WRT the police action taken IMO. The police can't make a medical assessment of his mental capiciaty other than he can raise a gun at them.

    Use a taser? No. Blame the cops for not knowing he suffered from alzheimer's, no. Be mad at the family for not removing ALL the firearms and placing him in an assisted-living OR having someone there with him as this nasty condition advanced and slowly took from this man his life? Yes. I've witnessed firsthand how alzheimer's can destroy a once strong person.

    The cops did what they could/had to do. I am certinally sympathic to the family, and the police for having to shoot as well, but this should have NOT happened..... and by no fault of the responding officers.

    Both officers were vetern officers with plenty of experience in assessing and making decisions under pressure. When a gun comes into play things change. Training and that mental 'autopilot' kicks in along with adrenialin and very healthly dose of fear.
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

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  11. #25
    Distinguished Member Array ArkhmAsylm's Avatar
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    Sounds like the police were presented with a tough and extremely dangerous situation. They will have to live with the actions that they had to take to ensure their safety.

    Some in the victim's family sound like their are going through the 'they should've/could've' gyrations...I'd seriously like to ask the family, "Dad (the victim's son) took away 'most' of his father's guns when he was diagnosed/started becoming sick, but why not all of them??"
    "Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)

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