Good item on PoliceOne.com -- Shoot to kill or shoot to wound?

Good item on PoliceOne.com -- Shoot to kill or shoot to wound?

This is a discussion on Good item on PoliceOne.com -- Shoot to kill or shoot to wound? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Shoot to kill or shoot to wound? Shoot to kill or shoot to wound? The ability of the police to perform their duties is dependent ...

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Thread: Good item on PoliceOne.com -- Shoot to kill or shoot to wound?

  1. #1
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    Good item on PoliceOne.com -- Shoot to kill or shoot to wound?


    Shoot to kill or shoot to wound?



    Shoot to kill or shoot to wound?
    The ability of the police to perform their duties is dependent upon public approval of police actions

    I know law enforcement shoots neither to wound nor kill. But the rest of the public doesn’t necessarily understand that. Should the profession be doing more to remedy this?

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    Shoot to stop the threat, no matter who you are.

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    Use of a firearm will never be considered anything other than "lethal force". It (the firearm) will not ever be looked at as a "less lethal". A shot to the pinky, however deliberate by the shooter, is still the use of "lethal force".

    The Public needs to be made aware that if an LEO decides he/she needs to employ "lethal force" to end a threat, then that member of the Public may move onto the Land of the No Longer Living.

    dan

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    The general public are quite naive as to how hard it is to even hit center mass under stress than to try to hit something else. And, how hitting an extremity isn't probably going to stop an attack. It is only likely to make the aggressor angry and more determined. There are exceptions to that like all things. The big question is how can the public be educated to understand this with the influence of TV and the movies showing otherwise. They don't seem to grasp the concept that for 99% of the population (or even higher) they can't shoot like the guys on the Expendables. It just ain't happening.
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    Thunder71 is correct. I retired after 32 years LE . You shoot to neutralize the threat.

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    Re: comments #2-5

    Yup. Didn't intend to be peaching to the choir.

    What I was focused on is "Should the profession be doing more to remedy this?"

    And by extension, should we, the defensive carry community, be doing more to remedy this? As the last comments in the article says,

    Law enforcement [and by extension, IMHO the defensive carry community] cannot afford to leave the public’s understanding to Hollywood, TV, and video and Internet games. As Freedom Rider John Lewis said about the fight for civil rights, If not us, then who? If not now, then when?”
    Last edited by DaveH; October 17th, 2012 at 05:54 PM. Reason: fixed comment number
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    Hollywierd has a bully pulpit when it comes to shoveling stuff down the public's perception.
    Short of becoming screen writers, I'm not sure how "we" -- whether the concealed-carry community, or the law enforcement community, can change this mis-perception.
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    I wish the public were simply clueless about police use of force. They’re not. Much of their understanding is informed by movies, TV, and internet and video games.
    Unfortunately the author is wrong in the assumption that the general public is informed in the police use of force. The fact that they watch cop movies, cop reality shows or play video games has nothing to do with being informed. If anything it makes the general public un-informed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder71 View Post
    Shoot to stop the threat, no matter who you are.

    *Use of lethal force to stop a threat may be accompanied by one or more of the following side effects which may vary in severity: Scratches, scrapes, bumps, bruises, cuts, burns, bleeding, puncture wounds, bone fractures, pain, temporary or permanent loss of limbs, temporary or permanent disruption of bodily functions, paralysis, brain damage, loss of speech, loss of coordination, crying for mommy, sudden Christianity, delusions of innocence, and death.
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    Shoot to stop the threat. It just so happens that the target area's that will more quickly stop a threat will also more quickly kill.

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    The general public should probably have a better understanding about the police use of a firearm... and the "force continuum" as regards LE...

    That said, they ain't gonna listen... if it isn't on tv or the movies... it isn't real to them... when cops shoot people, the recipient of the only bullet is blown completely off his feet and through the picture window... and then he gets up to run off...

    Now, if you explain to the general public that the object of the game is to shoot to "neutralize the threat/stop the threat" and (honestly) that it is very likely that the threat will die as a result of his "neutralization," they will not like it.

    And furthermore, if you explain to the general public that the well trained defensive carrier is of the same mindset as a LEO, then they still won't pay attention... but someone in the anti community will... and they will say "We don't need a bunch of people out there carrying guns when the only object of them carrying one is to "stop a threat to death" or "neutralize a threat to death." "Why, the streets will run with blood!"

    Oh, wait. The latter has already happened... and what they said hasn't proven to be true... but the anti's know how we train... some of us anyway... and they exploit that to raise fear amongst the general public.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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    Something a lot of people don't understand is the Use of Force Continuum. I'm not going to spell it out but basically the police like to be one step ahead of the BG as for as the tools they employ to change the BG's behavior. It ranges from the mere presence of a uniformed officer, voice commands, soft hand, hard hand, less than lethal weapons (pepper sprsy, baton, taser, etc), presentation of pistol, and finally shooting to stop the threat. The goal is to be one step ahead because it is much easier to lower the level of force than to try to catch up. 99% of us wake up with the same basic goal, return to the bed we just woke up from or least wake up from someones bed.
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    The general public should probably have a better understanding about the police use of a firearm... and the "force continuum" as regards LE
    The general public should probably have a better understanding about life itself, religion,politics,firearms, education, the U.S. Governement, how it is supposed to work, how it really works, so and so forth.

    Fact of the matter is, it aint gonna happen. The general public has been dumbed down to the point of being incapable of understanding much of anything.
    There are some individuals that are capable, but they are rapidly becoming a minority, if they arent already.

    This is not by accident. Its easier to control people that are dumb and not so easy to control people that have learned to think for themselves.
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    The thing I love about the hollywood depiction is that the good guy can get shot/stabbed/beat multiple times and keep on fighting, but the bad guys(at least the minions) go down with one shot from any gun in any location and die instantly. They display their hipocracy openly for all to see in their shows, only the good guys should have guns, because they are superheroes.

    As to the actual question though, I definitly think we need to work more to enlighten the masses. I have had multiple conversations with friends and family about mental power, mindset and reality when it comes to actual use of force scenarios. If they are reasoning, open minded people (many will not be) you may be pleasantly surprised by how accepting they are. Many people have just never considered that the police do aim to wound, and when actually faced with the gravity of a life and death sittuation, they will understand the necessity to stop the threat.

    As to what the LEO community could do to educate the public, I'm not sure. With all of the abuse of force complaints these days, they sure are not going to start an education campaign going around telling everyone that they shoot to kill "the people they are supposed to be protecting!" It is a touchy sittuation.
    Walk softly ...

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    ...
    This is not by accident. Its easier to control people that are dumb and not so easy to control people that have learned to think for themselves.
    The optimist in me wants to think that you are just being paranoid and a conspiracy theorist, but then my cynical side says "just because it's a conspiracy theory doesn't mean it isn't true". It is scary to think what will happen when that ratio tips too far in the wrong direction.
    Walk softly ...

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