Police Union tells members not to hurry...

Police Union tells members not to hurry...

This is a discussion on Police Union tells members not to hurry... within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; http://www.newsday.com/news/local/lo...news-headlines This is pretty sad. When you have the head of the police union callig for officers to delay their response to emergencies it does ...

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Thread: Police Union tells members not to hurry...

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Musketeer's Avatar
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    Police Union tells members not to hurry...

    http://www.newsday.com/news/local/lo...news-headlines

    This is pretty sad. When you have the head of the police union callig for officers to delay their response to emergencies it does nothing but build the wall between officers and civilians higher. I would not expect an officer to charge in alone into a barricade situation or violent domestic, but he sure as hell better get to the scene immediatly where he can then form up with a partner as needed. Yes, their first responsiblity is to go home alive. I like to see that in print since it does reinforce to others that you really are on your own. At the same time some of his statements are complete BS.


    PBA to cops: Don't rush
    In challenging policy to balance precinct staffing, union chief urges cops to wait for backup in emergencies

    BY SID CASSESE
    Newsday Staff Writer

    October 6, 2006

    A dispute has escalated between Nassau County and its biggest police union over a redeployment of officers - with the union's president even urging members not to rush to certain emergencies without backup.

    The clash stems from a police department order last month requiring for the first time that if one precinct is above minimum staffing levels and another is below them, officers be reassigned to make up the shortfall. It would save overtime costs, officials have said.

    In an e-mail to members, Gary DelaRaba, president of the Nassau Police Benevolent Association, warns that forcing police to patrol areas with which they are unfamiliar would be dangerous and counterproductive. So he urges that in situations where two officers are required the officer join up with a partner before rushing to the scene. The e-mail said:

    "I know this goes against everything you were trained to do but if you get a gun call, a baby stop[ped] breathing, violent mental aided [or] any call that requires two officers, meet [the veteran precinct officer] at a specific location then proceed as quickly as possible to the call.

    "YOU ARE NOT PAID TO TAKE FOOLISH CHANCES WITH YOUR LIFE! Your number one job is to make it home after each tour of duty."

    Police Commissioner James Lawrence condemned the union leader's missive as "despicable."

    "I can understand DelaRaba taking issue with a department strategy, but I find it outrageous that he would direct police officers to hesitate while responding on a 'baby not breathing' emergency call, and we won't tolerate it," Lawrence said.

    DelaRaba has filed one union grievance on the change, promised another, and is also considering seeking a temporary restraining order to stop the redeployment. It comes as he has declared an impasse in talks on a new contract.

    Lawrence defended the redeployment and denied DelaRaba's charges of endangerment.

    "We're obligated to man a certain number of posts in each precinct," said Lawrence. "Sometimes, if a precinct is above the minimum officers needed, we may send one or more of them to a precinct that is below the minimum. We would not do that if we thought it would put either the public or our officers in jeopardy. ... If there's any danger it's being created by DelaRaba.

    "He doesn't give directives to the patrol in the street, and they will respond as efficiently as always," Lawrence said of DelaRaba. "But just in case, we have taken precautions. ... This [deployment policy] is not about politics but serving the people in Nassau."

    Following his own news conference on the issue, DelaRaba argued yesterday that an officer waiting for a partner unfamiliar with the community could be more dangerous to an at-risk baby than delaying for a couple of minutes so they could arrive together. "That, though, would have to be decided on a case-by-case basis," he added.

    DelaRaba, who has been feuding with the administration of Nassau County Executive Thomas Suozzi for more than four years, also said at the conference that Lawrence, a former New York City police official, is copying NYPD procedures that call for such precinct transfers.

    "But this is a suburban community, and policed differently," he argued. "Moreover, it is an unnecessary risk to both the public and police officers, and safety issues like these should be negotiated."

    Eugene O'Donnell, an associate professor of police studies at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice in Manhattan, said: "At bottom, it's a labor relations issue. All the players are staking out positions. And without fixing blame, it could have a negative impact on public safety."

    "The union," he said, "has to be careful that it is not seen as violating the law by expounding some kind of slowdown, and the commissioner simply does not benefit by having this kind of low-burning warfare with the rank and file - it could hurt morale."
    Copyright 2006 Newsday Inc.
    What I find personally dispicable is this:

    "I can understand DelaRaba taking issue with a department strategy, but I find it outrageous that he would direct police officers to hesitate while responding on a 'baby not breathing' emergency call, and we won't tolerate it," Lawrence said.
    I am using this article with some of my non-2A savvy associates to point out once again the fallacy of thinking the police can protect you. They do a fine job, and all that they can, but it is now proven, once again, the only person responsible for you is you. It is too bad this was done in a way that paints the officers in a very bad light.


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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Precautionary measures taken to a whole new level.

    "To Protect And Serve," eh? Not in that town, not if that opinion becomes policy and officers are guided by it.

    Geez, where has all the honor gone.
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    That is a real shame.

    You're right, of course. In the end, law enforcement's legal responsibility is to enforce the law and arrest law-breakers after the fact (would we really want a Minority Report-style law enforcement protocol in a free society?). In the end, we are individually the primary guarantors of our own safety.

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    Distinguished Member Array SixBravo's Avatar
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    This can't be real.... this is a joke, right?
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    Senior Member Array Musketeer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SixBravo View Post
    This can't be real.... this is a joke, right?
    Real. Nassau County is on Long Island and is the coutny just outside New York City. Un like much of the nation in Nassau (and neighboring Suffolk) the County Police fill the function of town police. There are very few town police in either county, with many towns having none. They are talking about using County Officers from one overstaffed region to assist a neighboring Understaffed region, both of which are under the County Police.

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    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Geez, where has all the honor gone.
    A lot of it has been put in the ground, with a flag being handed to next-of-kin. I can't disagree with them, on this. Too many ambushes, dopers and hot DV calls. Conversely, I would not expect them to work the investigation too hard, when A-Holes start showing up dead, here and yon.

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    Member Array Dave James's Avatar
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    Have to agree with Rob,, after 30+ years as an Officer , what the union is saying makes sense,with one exception the baby not breathing call,,

    Working a strange zone,or area and responding to "hot" calls with out back up is just plain nuts..

    But the commish is right in his staffing , the unions up north are very strong, and pushy,, most departments down my way have been doing the same with staffing for years now,

  8. #8
    Senior Member Array Musketeer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob72 View Post
    I can't disagree with them, on this.
    Excuse me, how do you explain this part of it?

    "I know this goes against everything you were trained to do but if you get a gun call, a baby stop[ped] breathing, violent mental aided [or] any call that requires two officers, meet [the veteran precinct officer] at a specific location then proceed as quickly as possible to the call.
    That is the Union leader's exact words. As I already stated, it would be foolish for an officer to charge into a hostile situation where he needs backup. That does not mean you stop a couple blocks away, you get there, wait for backup and then go in.

    How about the "Baby stopped breathing" call? I got news for the Nassau County PD, if I found out the officers delayed a couple blocks away responding to a call for my dying child the situation would turn violent! I would also go after that union and the leader of it personaly.

    This was an attempt by the union to scare the residents of Nassau into fighting this plan. They are depending on the fear people have of their child dying in order to push through their own agenda for keeping officers in the comforatble precincts they are already in. Trust me, this comes down to the officers with seniority NOT wanting to cover the worse regions. They, through time in service, have gotten to better regions but this plan calls for them having to be shuffled to other areas they do not want to go to. The union, looking for any way to maintain the status quo, resorts to TERRORIST TACTICS, what is threatinning your child with death if not terrorism, to get their way.

    There are already rules about officers requireing backup. This policy does not change that. It is unpopular though with those who have plenty of time in and is therefore being painted as an officer safety issue.

    Left out in the cold though is the public.

    If you are in one of the understaffed areas the choices according to the Union are:

    1. Deal with a shortage of officers while neighboring towns have plenty.

    2. Have enough officers but they will delay all their responses to make a point.

    This does not help the average officer or citizen, only the few long time officers who don't want to break their routine. Very sad indeed.

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    Working a strange zone,or area and responding to "hot" calls with out back up is just plain nuts..
    That is pure hype.

    Sheriff Deputys all over the country do that on a daily basis. Life in the big city is quite different than life in the country.

    I cant tell you hopw many times we have had ONE deputy to cover the whole county. What are we suppose to do if we have a hot call that we dont like ? Not respond?

    But this is a suburban community, and policed differently," he argued. "Moreover, it is an unnecessary risk to both the public and police officers, and safety issues like these should be negotiated."
    Sheesh. This cat needs to get out and visit the real world once in awhile. Most communitys are "suburban". If he wants a real view of surburban, he needs to come to Arkansas where one might enocounter more bears and coyotes on a shift than people.
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    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    I donno about anyone else , but back when i drew my pittance from public service the rules were that we showed up for every call , in a timely fashon ( some nights call triage you know ) and the officer responding did his or her best not to escilate the call , its either handle it or try and contain it untill backup arrives , with minimal injurys to the public and ourselves ... and in that order .. now if she is talking to a bunch of union members who are green and somewhat billyblackgloved ( the actual police ver of mallninja and yes they are out there lol ) then ok ... i suspect she is in all honesty , since no real officer with any experiance will change a thing no matter what she writes lol .
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    Senior Member Array Skygod's Avatar
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    Police

    Any police officer worth his salt will disregard this type of memo
    Perhaps your sole purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others.

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    Member Array Sonic Misfit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skygod View Post
    Any police officer worth his salt will disregard this type of memo
    You will definitely see the difference between the professionals and those people who just wear a uniform.

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    Senior Member Array CombatEffective's Avatar
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    I can't understand not going to medical calls straight away, but I can definately understand not going to "hot" calls without backup. That goes for being within the normal precint or not.

    The solution here is simple: cross train officers in in each of their conjoining precincts to help speed response times and allow the officers to get to know the areas were they would be needed to work.
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    Member Array soundwave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SixBravo View Post
    This can't be real.... this is a joke, right?
    lol I have 35 deputies in total for the jurisdiction I'm responsible for (not including the rest of the county, just my part of it). I usually have 2-3 deputies on any given shift which may or may not include a sergeant. All of these new deputies seem to have some strange fascination with what we call "umbillical cord stops". That, for any stop that has more than just a driver in the car, they seem to think that 2-3 deputies need to be at each stop. So for a lot of traffic stops, I have my entire force out on a measley traffic stop that 99.9999% of the time is absolutely nothing.

    Truthfully, at Christmas time, I'm still literally thinking about handing out DPS (same as highway patrol here, practically) applications. The funny thing is, I've only had one time one of our resident DPS officers request assistance. He stopped a car with 5 (rather large) people in a car with 300+ lbs of marijuana and at least 2 felony warrants a piece. Did he want assistance as in a deputy for backup? Nope. He forgot his camera and needed to take the pictures for evidence and was wondering if a deputy could come out so he could borrow his camera. Ya, that's it. The guy is 90 lbs soaking wet and looks like he is wearing Daddy's DPS uniform and he arrests 5 people by himself and needs "backup" to borrow a camera. But our deputies claim "officer safety" for any car with more than one person in it. I just don't get it.

    And as Musketeer said, my jurisdiction is one of those no-local-police areas (in Arizona, at least). We have several little towns we are responsible for because they don't have a police force but are still in our county. Personally, for the thing on the child not breathing, I want an ambulance. None of our deputies would know the first thing about what to do (not CPR certified). I'd feel more comfortable giving CPR instructions over the phone and taking the heat of possible liability and departmental adverse action than wait for one of them to come help (I'm not certified to give medical instructions, btw). Sad, but true.

    You all know my views on firearms, so you can tell how much I feel my own department is going to protect me. And I live less than a mile from my work. Keep that in mind.

    Cheers.

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    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soundwave View Post
    Personally, for the thing on the child not breathing, I want an ambulance. None of our deputies would know the first thing about what to do (not CPR certified). I'd feel more comfortable giving CPR instructions over the phone and taking the heat of possible liability and departmental adverse action than wait for one of them to come help (I'm not certified to give medical instructions, btw). Sad, but true.
    Every locality is a bit different. Most midwestern/eastern places I've lived had Fire or EMS as first response on med calls. If you have PD as first response- you have a really bad area, or you have too many blue uniforms to keep employed as FTEs. I would agree with Soundwave's assessment.

    I'm not familiar with the area, or the people involved, but, FWIW, if the patrol/response area is bad, life is cheap, and throwing your butt out there with "Shoot Me" wig-wags going is not going to increase the value markedly. I don't think I necessarily disagree with anyone here- I'm just very circumspect in approaching.......

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