Misdemeanors? NO guns for you!

Misdemeanors? NO guns for you!

This is a discussion on Misdemeanors? NO guns for you! within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; So here I was in a patrol car...minding my own buisness. OK, maybe not to much, I was running radar on one of the most ...

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  1. #1
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    Misdemeanors? NO guns for you!

    So here I was in a patrol car...minding my own buisness. OK, maybe not to much, I was running radar on one of the most scenic highways in America. I counted 3 dead deer on the side of the road from where I was sitting to the Marshals Office. The rut is in full swing here.

    I get a call from dispatch. Someone has just tried to buy a gun at one of the local gunshops, and the NICS check that everyone raves about that keeps guns out of the hands of criminals, alerted the FBI to the fact that someone with a misdemeanor warrant warrant on them tried to buy a gun.

    I'm thinking...the FBI? Really?

    So I go. As I suspected, the middle aged woman was not there. I talked to the owner...well known to me, in fact I had been there earlier in the morn to shoot the breeze.

    He's a bit concerned about the situation. He dosent get "deny" much when he does the NICS check. All he knows is that they wouldnt allow the purchase to take place, in this case a .22 rifle that she wanted to get her husband for Christmas.

    I take a look at the 4473. Being a gun dealer myself, I am very familiar with the form. As it turns out, I knew the woman. She has served me many times at the local resturaunt, and she is as good a woman as they come.
    You've got to be kidding me" I think to myself. She'd be the last person that you would think gets denied. She goes to church every Sunday, heck, she even teaches Sunday school.
    Definitley not someone that you would expect to get "denied" on a NICS check.

    So I call dispatch and have them run a history on her. Come to find out, she got a speeding ticket and failed to appear at court when she should have and a misdemeanor warrant was issued. To put the misdemeanor in context, we dont ever arrest anyone for that. If you happen to stop them on the highway, you simply advise them of the court date and tell them to be there.

    So I go to the resturaunt where she works and I talk to her about it. Yeah...she missed the court date alright. She went to another state to visit her sick mom and was under the assumption that she had things taken care of. She had called the Court Clerk and made arrangements to reappear at the next court date which was a month away. For some reason, somebody forgot to follow up with that and when she didnt show, the warrant was issued. Call it miscommunication, bad communication, or maybe in this case , no communication. Call it whatever you want...it dosent matter.

    Now, I'll admit...this is the first time I have ever heard of this. None of our officers have heard of it, our Chief hasnt heard of it...in fact no one that I talked to had ever heard of a misdemeanor for anything tying up a gun transaction.

    So all of a sudden, the NICS check is using midemeanors to deny a gun purchase. Think about it. Jaywalking is a misdemeanor. Throwing bubble gum on the sidewalk is a misdemeanor. In some places farting in public is a misdemeanor.

    The fact the the FBI alerted the Local LEO's to gun purchase for a misdemeanor ought to be alarming to most of us. I say most...because some simply do not care that the NICS check system started out as a check to insure that FELONS could not purchase a gun. It was hailed as the latest and greatest technology to come to be..it was meant to "keep us safe" from badguys that would own guns to use against us.

    So here we go. I personally saw it as the camels nose under the tent. I was accused of needing a tin foil hat because I could see this being used and abused by those that hate the idea of using a gun for self defense.Abuse by tyrants that know that there is a limit to the BS that they can get away with as long as you have a means to fight back. I always thought that proving yourself innocent of a crime by passing a background check was not the right way to do things in a country that prides itself on be" innocent until proven quilty". That's the way it is suppose to be anyway. I was always taught that the burden of guilt was on the government to prove...not the other way around which is exactly what a NICS check is. That ought to be obvious for anyone that wasnt pushed through school due to the "no child left behind act" which basically means that you cant fail anyone no matter how stupid they are...that you can still get a high school diploma without actually knowing how to read or write.

    Want to buy a gun for Christmas? You'd better make sure that you aren't a "fugitive from justise" or you wont be able to buy it. The NICS check will kick you out...alert the FBI..who will call the local dispatch... who will dispatch the local police to your house to visit you. For a MISDEMEANOR.

    For you highly educated types that wanted "change" ...well... now you've got it.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
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  2. #2
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    You are already confirming what 'some of us' expect the slippery path to be............ Thank you for posting this.

    Also, thank you for being a Professional! I might even start to have a broader respect for your profession after reading this.

    Though I am not a Peace Officer, I am sworn to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States (I took that oath more times than I can remember, but I can remember that I have never un-sworn that oath, just sayin).

    Semper Fi,
    Socialism Kills! Time proven, with a very large body count! We are a Constitutional Republic....... not a Democracy, get it correct!

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    Legally can they do that? When did that start, right after Nov 6?
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

  4. #4
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    Legally can they do that?
    Whether its legal or not, it happened.


    When did that start, right after Nov 6?
    Come to your own conclusions about that. I've never heard of it until today.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
    Like custom guns and stuff? Check this out...
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  5. #5
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    This ain't good.
    Duty, Honor, Country...MEDIC!!!
    ¡Cuánto duele crecer, cuan hondo es el dolor de alzarse en puntillas y observar con temblores de angustia, esa cosa tremenda, que es la vida del hombre! - René Marqués

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    Stuff happens, and that is unfortunate. I am sure we have other FFLs and LEOs here.
    Can someone else say if they have encountered a similar problem before we jump to conclusions
    about conspiracies to change the rules from felonies to minor misdemeanors.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  7. #7
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    FWIW:

    Reasons You Can Be Denied a Firearm Transfer
    Background Check Required to Legally Buy a Gun
    By Charles Montaldo, About.com Guide

    Buying a handgun
    Since the passage of the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993, anyone who purchases a firearm in the United States must submit to a background check to determine if they are eligible to legally buy and possess a gun.
    License gun dealers must check each person who tries to buy a firearm through the FBI's National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS). On average, only about one percent of firearms transfers are denied by the NICS system, mainly because most convicted criminals already know they are not eligible to own a gun.

    If you are concerned about being turned down for a firearms transfer, you may want to take the Firearms Transfer Background Check Quiz before you attempt a purchase.


    Prohibitive Criteria for Firearm Transfers
    Under federal law, there are specific reasons that a firearm transfer can be denied. If you have had a firearm transfer denied, it is because you or someone else with a similar name or descriptive features has ever been:

    Convicted of a felony. Convicted in any court of a crime which in punishable by a term of more than one year or a misdemeanor punishable by more than two years.

    Indicted for a crime punishable by more than one year.

    A fugitive from justice.

    A user of illegal drugs or an addict.

    Involuntarily committed to a mental institution.

    An illegal alien.

    Dishonorably discharged from the armed forces.

    Renounced your U.S. citizenship.

    Subject to a restraining order for threatening a family member.

    Convicted of domestic violence.

    State Laws Come Into Play Also
    The NCIS can also deny a firearm transfer based on any applicable state laws. For example, if your state has a law prohibiting the possession of a specific type of firearm, the NICS can deny your transfer even though possession of that firearm is not prohibited by federal law.
    The Brady Law was designed to make sure that only law-abiding citizens can purchase and own firearms, but critics claim that the law only created a huge black-market demand for illegal guns sales to criminals.


    Appealing a Firearm Transfer Denial
    If you try to purchase a gun and you recieve a firearms transfer denial during the background check, you can appeal that denial6 if you do not meet any of the above criteria and you believe a mistake has been made.
    Approximately, one percent of firearms transfers are denied and many times it because of mistaken identity or incorrect records at NICS. Therefore, many firearms transfer denial appeals are successful.

    Source: U.S. Department of Justice, Federal Bureau of Investigation, Criminal Justice Information Services Division. "Guide for Appealing a Firearm Transfer Denial." Revised March 2007.
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

  8. #8
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    A fugitive from, justice. Whether its your fault or not. Misdemeanor fugitives need not apply.

    If you got a ticket for jaywalking, paid the fine a day late, and it wasnt cleared in the computer when it automatically declared you a fugitive from justice...too bad,so sad. No guns for you.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
    Like custom guns and stuff? Check this out...
    http://bobbailey1959.wordpress.com/

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    From what I'm reading on Google, several people have posted about not being able to buy a gun due to a misdemeanor. Some of the posts are a year or so old. This misdemeanor question may go all the way back to "Brady". To add a twist, each state may be different, the feds database adjusts for each state's criteria, therefore flags vary by state. Another twist seems to be, is what sentence accompanies the misdemeanor.

    In this ladies case, an outstanding warrant for a misdemeanor, I'm guessing was enough to cause her flag.
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

  10. #10
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    From the FBI NICS fact sheet

    Persons who are fugitives of justice—for example, the subject of an active felony or misdemeanor warrant.


    Pay your fines and court costs on time and show up for court dates. It's not that she was charged with a misdemeanor, but that she didn't show up to take care of it. In La, don't show up or pay for a ticket and a bench warrant is issued.
    MattInFla likes this.

  11. #11
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    In this ladies case, an outstanding warrant for a misdemeanor, I'm guessing was enough to cause her flag
    I'm sure it was. Is it really enough to deny her the ability to buy a gun?

    I'm sure some here would argue that it would. Is justice being served here? Is this really they way we want things to be? Whats it gonna be like tommorow? Five years from now? 25 years from now?

    At the rate that we are going,at some point in time, you will be denied because your mortgage payment was a day late or because your dog pooped in the park and you didnt pick it up.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
    Like custom guns and stuff? Check this out...
    http://bobbailey1959.wordpress.com/

  12. #12
    Member Array mg27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    I'm sure it was. Is it really enough to deny her the ability to buy a gun?

    I'm sure some here would argue that it would. Is justice being served here? Is this really they way we want things to be? Whats it gonna be like tommorow? Five years from now? 25 years from now?

    At the rate that we are going,at some point in time, you will be denied because your mortgage payment was a day late or because your dog pooped in the park and you didnt pick it up.
    I agree 100%..

  13. #13
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    The image of someone's sig line keeps popping in my head:

    "The two worst enemies of guns are rust and politicians"
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

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    Once something is relegated to the computer, there is no gray, only black or white. An unintended consequence is the lack of common sense.
    blitzburgh likes this.

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    Distinguished Member Array lchamp's Avatar
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    speechless!

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