Draft Army Handbook Controversy - Page 2

Draft Army Handbook Controversy

This is a discussion on Draft Army Handbook Controversy within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by chuckusaret I have been out of the service for 35 years and I guess the military no longer gives trans cultural training ...

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  1. #16
    Member Array steffen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckusaret View Post
    I have been out of the service for 35 years and I guess the military no longer gives trans cultural training prior to unit deployment.
    They still give cultural training, but they haven't figured out a way to give "get along with the indigenous people of the country you have destroyed and continue to control with military power" training.


  2. #17
    Senior Member Array mano3's Avatar
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    "Nice knowing you Middle East. It hasn't been fun and we're leaving now. Go ahead and kill yourselves and drink your oil. We're going to use our own."

    If only that could be true...
    US Air Force, 1986 - 2007

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  3. #18
    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    We just need to bring all our troops home and send drones with "sensitivity" training back in their place.
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  4. #19
    Member Array steffen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mano3 View Post
    "Nice knowing you Middle East. It hasn't been fun and we're leaving now. Go ahead and kill yourselves and drink your oil. We're going to use our own."

    If only that could be true...
    I blame it on Israel. They must have some dirt on the USA that forces us to do whatever they please. Thanks to the PATRIOT Act, I'll probably end up in Guantanamo over this post... hope you all enjoyed it.

  5. #20
    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steffen View Post
    I blame it on Israel. They must have some dirt on the USA that forces us to do whatever they please. Thanks to the PATRIOT Act, I'll probably end up in Guantanamo over this post... hope you all enjoyed it.
    I don't have any problem with Israel, but it is ironic that our only real ally in the middle east is the country that has no oil.
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  6. #21
    Member Array steffen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gene83 View Post
    I don't have any problem with Israel, but it is ironic that our only real ally in the middle east is the country that has no oil.
    I would like to clarify that I don't have any problem with Israel(or any other foreign country for that matter). I just don't think our President and State Department are truthful about the reasons why they are our "greatest ally."

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by steffen View Post
    I would like to clarify that I don't have any problem with Israel(or any other foreign country for that matter). I just don't think our President and State Department are truthful about the reasons why they are our "greatest ally."
    You can think of Israel as a bulwark against the barbarian horde.
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  8. #23
    Member Array steffen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdydak View Post
    You can think of Israel as a bulwark against the barbarian horde.
    Not really sure I understand what you mean... who are they protecting from the hoard?

  9. #24
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    This assumes it is not Gen. Allen that is suffering the disconnect does it not?
    Of course. By mere proximity he should be MORE connected, but alas, my assumption may be incorrect.

    As a problem, I would expect the military to explore all avenues. Having said that, the military has a number of bright talented individuals with advanced or terminal degrees in numerous different fields of study. I have no doubt they have some extremely bright and dedicated folks in Leavenworth and elsewhere. I would hope they are given free rein to explore and study all avenues, not merely those politically expedient. The risk may well be a certain collection of circumstances exacerbates the likelihood of an adverse event. The thesis of the Manual appears, however, to my untrained eye, to be politically expedient and perhaps simplistic? Maybe I am merely reading the Cliff Notes and should hold my tongue.......

    Anyway, regardless of the above, if I have offended anyone, particularly any members here, please accept my heartfelt apology. I have not intended to disrespect anyone that has served or is serving, and I certainly hope I have not opened or reopened sores best left alone. I am sorry.

    Israel
    I think Israel provides the USA with significant value in intelligence and other clandestine matters, just as many of our other allies which we support in a financial and in a military manner. The world is fluid, our allies and co-joiners today may well be different in the future. Examples are numerous and inlcude The Shah of Iran; Nasser, Stalin and others. Israel is an ally now, and foreseeably into the future. The are a democracy and have many attributes sorely lacking otherwsie in the Mid-East.
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock View Post
    I don't want to criticize the Military or anyone in uniform, so tell me I'm wrong! Am I just going crazy? We hurt the tender feelings of this folks so they kill us? That explanation just doesn't wash. That dog don't hunt.
    They kill us because they quite literally have not a single clue as to what is going on. One second they're minding their own business trying to manage day to day existence on this planet and a helicopter full of Marines shows up and starts killing everything. Destroying their homes, killing the livestock they desperately need to survive, etc. But why? Well they don't know. They have not even the slightest clue as to why we are in their country, or why we hunt the Taliban. And it angers them and pushes some of them to the breaking point.
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  11. #26
    Member Array steffen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock View Post
    Of course. By mere proximity he should be MORE connected, but alas, my assumption may be incorrect.

    As a problem, I would expect the military to explore all avenues. Having said that, the military has a number of bright talented individuals with advanced or terminal degrees in numerous different fields of study. I have no doubt they have some extremely bright and dedicated folks in Leavenworth and elsewhere. I would hope they are given free rein to explore and study all avenues, not merely those politically expedient. The risk may well be a certain collection of circumstances exacerbates the likelihood of an adverse event. The thesis of the Manual appears, however, to my untrained eye, to be politically expedient and perhaps simplistic? Maybe I am merely reading the Cliff Notes and should hold my tongue.......

    Anyway, regardless of the above, if I have offended anyone, particularly any members here, please accept my heartfelt apology. I have not intended to disrespect anyone that has served or is serving, and I certainly hope I have not opened or reopened sores best left alone. I am sorry.
    Based on my experience, you are correct that the military has a lot of bright and talented individuals. One potential problem is that the way people are promoted and selected for special assignments on both the officer and enlisted side doesn't always place those bright and talented individuals in the places where they are most effective. Since people tend to develop personal relationships(appropriate ones) with their superiors and subordinates, that leads to decisions being made in a subjective manner. People in general are not very good at thinking objectively when their emotions are involved. The end result is that everybody generally gets along and likes one another, so everybody gets the best possible rating on performance reviews and then there is no good way to figure out who's the best and brightest.

    Also, I didn't really read anything in your posts that would give anyone a good reason to be offended. It might have been directed at the military in general, but I suppose if they are in the military they should get some thicker skin or just hit the back button.



    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock View Post
    I think Israel provides the USA with significant value in intelligence and other clandestine matters, just as many of our other allies which we support in a financial and in a military manner. The world is fluid, our allies and co-joiners today may well be different in the future. Examples are numerous and inlcude The Shah of Iran; Nasser, Stalin and others. Israel is an ally now, and foreseeably into the future. The are a democracy and have many attributes sorely lacking otherwsie in the Mid-East.
    I just don't see any decent reason why we should even be interested in the region. I don't really consider oil a decent reason. Even though oil is very important for our economy, our government has no business using military power the way they currently are to try and control our oil suppliers. If we want to control the land where oil is supplied we need to make a declaration of war for that specific purpose, take that land over, and then incorporate it into our "empire." We aren't fooling anybody by calling it a war on terror(except maybe the American people.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rotorhead84 View Post
    They kill us because they quite literally have not a single clue as to what is going on. One second they're minding their own business trying to manage day to day existence on this planet and a helicopter full of Marines shows up and starts killing everything. Destroying their homes, killing the livestock they desperately need to survive, etc. But why? Well they don't know. They have not even the slightest clue as to why we are in their country, or why we hunt the Taliban. And it angers them and pushes some of them to the breaking point.
    You hit the nail on the head.

  12. #27
    Distinguished Member Array chuckusaret's Avatar
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    I doubt that the people who drafted the Field Manual/handbook are in the military but are General Service (GS) civilian employees.
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  13. #28
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    Originally Posted by Rotorhead84

    "They kill us because they quite literally have not a single clue as to what is going on. One second they're minding their own business trying to manage day to day existence on this planet and a helicopter full of Marines shows up and starts killing everything. Destroying their homes, killing the livestock they desperately need to survive, etc. But why? Well they don't know. They have not even the slightest clue as to why we are in their country, or why we hunt the Taliban. And it angers them and pushes some of them to the breaking point."
    You have proof of this?

    My thoughts is that we're overly concerned about avoiding collateral damage instead of killing them all and letting Allah sort them out. It's hard for the politicos to win hearts and minds when they're all expired.
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  14. #29
    Member Array steffen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Originally Posted by Rotorhead84



    You have proof of this?

    My thoughts is that we're overly concerned about avoiding collateral damage instead of killing them all and letting Allah sort them out. It's hard for the politicos to win hearts and minds when they're all expired.

    Well when we conduct acts of war without declaring war, its hard for the rest of the world to see our actions as anything other than murder.

  15. #30
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    I have not read the handbook (yet)...but I did spend 365 days working directly with the Afghans (Afghani is their money).

    In my time working with them, there were only 1 or 2 who I thought were worth anything...as military officers and professionals.

    The rest? --> Afghan forces engage in thievery, are "gutless in combat," are "basically stupid," "profoundly dishonest," and engage in "treasonous collusion and alliances with enemy forces."

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