Draft Army Handbook Controversy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OldVet

Originally Posted by Rotorhead84



You have proof of this?

My thoughts is that we're overly concerned about avoiding collateral damage instead of killing them all and letting Allah sort them out. It's hard for the politicos to win hearts and minds when they're all expired.

---

Sure do. A recent field study in Afganistan revealed 92% of Afghani's have no freakin clue what happened on 9/11 and could not recognize photos of the event. A lot of the Afghan police and even the translators that work with the military have no idea what 9/11 was. A bunch of village elders were showed pictures of New York City and 9/11 and they thought it was Americans attacking Kabul.

Apparently they've never seen Kabul.


Watch the whole thing:

Video: What Does 9/11 Mean to People in Afghanistan? | Watch PBS NewsHour Online | PBS Video

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rotorhead84

Sure do. A recent field study in Afganistan revealed 92% of Afghani's have no freakin clue what happened on 9/11 and could not recognize photos of the event. A lot of the Afghan police and even the translators that work with the military have no idea what 9/11 was. A bunch of village elders were showed pictures of New York City and 9/11 and they thought it was Americans attacking Kabul.

Apparently they've never seen Kabul.


Watch the whole thing:

Video: What Does 9/11 Mean to People in Afghanistan? | Watch PBS NewsHour Online | PBS Video

---

I don't think this means anything, to be honest. It is an abstraction, Star Wars. I do agree they, for the most part, have no understanding what the geopolitical issues are, nor do they care. They probably see us no differently than the Khan, the Turks, the Brits, the Russians..............

Quote:

---

They kill us because they quite literally have not a single clue as to what is going on. One second they're minding their own business trying to manage day to day existence on this planet and a helicopter full of Marines shows up and starts killing everything. Destroying their homes, killing the livestock they desperately need to survive, etc. But why? Well they don't know. They have not even the slightest clue as to why we are in their country, or why we hunt the Taliban. And it angers them and pushes some of them to the breaking point.

---

I don't disagree they don't for the most part understand? They want to make money, raise a family, just like most folks whether in some third world hell-hole or Sweden or the USA or elsewhere........

The "Inside the Wire" murders are not completed by someone that saw his family hurt by coalition troops who then decided to seek revenge by moving to Kabul, joining the government, soliciting training, passing the training, and then getting inside the wire to kill infidels. That particular aggrieved soul might just go get an AK and join AQ out in the field. Maybe same result, maybe not.

I considered the impetus for the handbook as "inside the wire" type murders, not "peacefuls going jihadist after seeing their families killed". Not that either is a formula for winning the hearts and minds of the locals. I am not trying to argue, just keep this focused.

So.....back to the question.............Does the handbook miss the point? Based on input, it appears yes.

I am concluding the handbook was written with a great deal of political expediency..............not that there are a couple of thousand different ways to look at the conflict. They've been killing and torturing each other for centuries, and will be long after we're motes of dust...........

Please understand I am not being judgmental of our troops, it's the damn politicians that have me exercised.........

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SIGguy229

I have not read the handbook (yet)...but I did spend 365 days working directly with the Afghans (Afghani is their money).

In my time working with them, there were only 1 or 2 who I thought were worth anything...as military officers and professionals.

The rest? --> Afghan forces engage in thievery, are "gutless in combat," are "basically stupid," "profoundly dishonest," and engage in "treasonous collusion and alliances with enemy forces."

:yup:

---

They follow the doctrine of "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" and they all see us as invaders, regardless of which side they favor.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rock and Glock

The "Inside the Wire" murders are not completed by someone that saw his family hurt by coalition troops who then decided to seek revenge by moving to Kabul, joining the government, soliciting training, passing the training, and then getting inside the wire to kill infidels. That particular aggrieved soul might just go get an AK and join AQ out in the field. Maybe same result, maybe not.

---

Did you watch the video? Most of the interpreters for the US military have no idea why we are there either. Its just a job to them. Maybe one day they go on a mission that results in their village being blown to hell, or a relative is hurt, wounded, killed, etc. Maybe the same thing goes for the Afghan troops? Maybe they don't know either? Or maybe they're simply recruited by AQ. They're already inside the wire, the work is done. Speculating of course, just a few shots in the dark. I really don't know. My personal belief is that the vast majority of them haven't the slightest understand as to what is going on, and because of the religious influence and lack of education many can be easily swayed to "the dark side"

I've noticed that many of those who are praising this handbook weren't in the Military, at least there was no indication of it in their sig lines or otherwise. They haven't had to suffer through shortages, budget cutbacks, manpower cutbacks while the government, the same government that sent them in harms way, are spending millions of bucks on feel good, pc programs. Officers & NCOs trying to train their troops to have a better chance of surviving in combat. There were many times when our ammo budget ran out & we couldn't even qualify our Soldiers on their assigned weapon, whether it be a rifle, an artillery piece or a tank.

We have plenty of Special Operations troops to work on hearts & minds & plenty of Intel types to interpret what the enemy or potential enemy is thinking. Use all this "extra" money to train them better.

Just once I'd like to have the detractors of our Military spend a few years in our boots.

If you can read this thank a teacher. If you can read this in English thank a Soldier.

After my recent experiences with the Army, let's see: Spend $10,000,000 on ammo for training a lot of grunts or one Gray Eagle UAV. They'll take the UAV--and a bunch of them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OldVet

They follow the doctrine of "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" and they all see us as invaders, regardless of which side they favor.

---

And that has worked well for thousands of years. Why would they change now? If you go with the flow and don't make waves you get paid and fed and when the occupying army of the day leaves do you still have a job? If you work too hard they might leave sooner, but you might not be popular with those that come into power when they leave. If you just sort of go along to get along and your efforts are not such that they will get noticed you might be able to swing a job with the next faction that comes to power. You work too hard you might end up getting snatched by the secret police later on.

As far as their ignorance of 9/11 goes, why would we expect them to know or care about it? The Taliban strictly controlled the media back then. It is not like they were glued to their TVs watching it live on CNN. They did not hang out at a Starbucks with free Wi fi. For many of them their first information about 9/11 was probably from the people that have invaded their country. And why did we invade? Because this attack originated from there we tell them. Think they feel we are a credible source on that? Look how many whack jobs there are here in this country that claim it was done by our own government.

:banana:Well, I saw the man on the Grassy Knoll!