Hardening K-12 school facilities: suggestions? - Page 3

Hardening K-12 school facilities: suggestions?

This is a discussion on Hardening K-12 school facilities: suggestions? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Here's an interesting write-up, bringing up some design elements for the discussion ... Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design And Security Technology For Schools Highlights ... ...

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  1. #31
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Here's an interesting write-up, bringing up some design elements for the discussion ...

    Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design And Security Technology For Schools

    Highlights ...


    CPTED Planning: Key Questions

    Although the fine details of safe school planning can become overwhelmingly complex, an excellent
    framework to start with can draw on the following eight questions:

    1. What risks and opportunities do students encounter between home and school? Regardless of school climate and architecture, if students traverse war zones to reach school, they are in danger. Even after reaching safe schools, high states of anxiety can compromise students’ ability to learn.

    2. What risks and opportunities are posed in areas directly adjoining school property? An offender looking for child victims can predict accessibility at these locations. Drug or alcohol outlets anywhere near a school increase the likelihood of substance-abuse fueled antisocial behavior.

    3. Can office staff observe approaching visitors before they reach the school entry? The office is the screening tool for most schools, expected to evaluate and direct visitors, bar undesirables, placate the disgruntled and generally solve problems. Most offices are poorly-sited to fulfill these roles.

    4. Do staff members have the physical ability to stop visitors from entering? Even if staff can see intruders approaching, can they really do anything about it? Are the doors already locked as a matter of course once school starts? How quickly and easily can staff lock all entries? Can staff protect themselves as well as the student body, or are they simply set up to be the first victims?

    5. How well can people see what's going on inside? Blind corners, alcoves and stairwells provide "cover," or hidden areas, for misbehavior.

    6. Do staff members have immediate lockdown capability in classrooms and other locations? For every indoor location, how do people call for help, make themselves safe, or protect students? Any room might have to serve as a haven during a crisis. Unfortunately, most would be very difficult to lock down, and only some have reliable communication devices. Most rooms will have outward opening doors. If the door is standing open during an emergency, a teacher will have to reach out into the hallway – which could be a dangerous location, with bullets flying – to pull the door closed. Even worse, she may have to insert a key on the outer, hallway side in order to lock the door. That means she will have to step into the hallway, extract a key ring, find the correct key and insert it into the lock – possibly while shots are being fired. Entrapment is also a risk. If an intruder blocks the classroom door, students will need a secondary escape route.

    7. Is the overall school climate pro-social? The dangers of an anti-social school climate far outweigh the benefits of a pro-social physical environment. In the extreme, a highly secure but effectively toxic school resembles nothing more than a prison.

    8. Are there identifiable or predictable trouble spots or high risk locations? Students often identify the entrance, any hallway or stairs, parts of the cafeteria and restrooms as hotspots. Each of these locations merits individual attention.

    A detailed examination of each of these questions follows, in the linked PDF document (above).
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  2. #32
    VIP Member Array Supertac45's Avatar
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    Another reason to consider that is the real problem: Obama administration let school security funds lapse | Education News
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  3. #33
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    SL1ckOne, RETSUPT99 and 10thmtn like this.

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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danoh View Post
    From the article:
    "The new law allows schools and private establishments to voluntarily stay pistol-free if they choose to"

    My money is many schools will choose to...

    I've been thinking of my kids' schools over the last several days, as I'm sure many other parents are. I can't see any good answer on how to make them more secure. We don't have a single building - rather several spread out buildings, many have classrooms with doors leading straight outside. Portable classrooms on each of their campuses. The elementary school is spread out over 3 main buildings with several portables. The middle school's main building opens directly to a set of stairs going to classrooms or you can pass by the stairs to go down the hall to the office. The 6th grade building is seperate with all classes leading straight outside, plus a seperate gym. The high school is also several buildings. Anyone coming on campus in any of their schools could skip the office and the office isn't going to see the parking lot. Schools weren't built with security in mind...

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by dben002 View Post
    I have always been of the impression that most bad guys don't go where they know they are going to be shot at and possibly killed....so the answer seems obvious to me.......
    The key problem with your comment is the word "most." Because, people such as Lanza are not
    deterred by the threat of being killed. They expect to die. They intend suicide. Their worst nightmare
    is failure; that is, being caught just before they actually accomplish their act.

    Arming teachers or staff could actually end up being a bit counter productive if in the end that starts to attract
    idiots who want to commit suicide by teacher instead of suicide by cop.
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  7. #37
    Senior Member Array JJVP's Avatar
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    How about this?
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  8. #38
    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    The key problem with your comment is the word "most." Because, people such as Lanza are not
    deterred by the threat of being killed. They expect to die. They intend suicide. Their worst nightmare
    is failure; that is, being caught just before they actually accomplish their act.

    Arming teachers or staff could actually end up being a bit counter productive if in the end that starts to attract
    idiots who want to commit suicide by teacher instead of suicide by cop.
    Sorry Hoppy-
    I disagree with your assessment here. People like Lanza may have a death wish. But, these psychopaths also want to harm as many people as they can before they go. (That's one reason psychopaths pick these "gun free" zones.)

    Arming teachers & administrators would really be counter productive to them. The schools would be safer because these psychos would pick other soft targets.

    -

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by foxytwo View Post
    Arming and training teachers could stop a shooter before to many people were shot, possibly before anyone was shot. I would hope that enough teachers would be willing to take the training to conceal carry and additional training to qualify for carrying in schools, what ever that may be. If they put police in schools, it would most likely be only one to a school. How long would it take a policeman to find a shooter in a large school?
    Like permits in public, there are positive externalities. Just changing the legal environment leaves a psycho shooter unsure about a "gun free" zone. Changes the whole dynamic. Whether teachers actually carry or not is a wild card in their favor against a predator.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    The key problem with your comment is the word "most." Because, people such as Lanza are not
    deterred by the threat of being killed. They expect to die. They intend suicide. Their worst nightmare
    is failure; that is, being caught just before they actually accomplish their act.

    Arming teachers or staff could actually end up being a bit counter productive if in the end that starts to attract
    idiots who want to commit suicide by teacher instead of suicide by cop.
    If some kids can be saved...
    I would say that suicide by teacher...10 minutes before the cops can get there is certainly fine with me.
    varob, mprp and 64zebra like this.
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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    I heard someone on radio suggest we utilize LE who are on job related disability retirement, and retirees. It was suggested that since these people were already trained, offer those on disability a little more than they are receiving and pay them to secure the school.

    Many officers on disability are not unable to do this type of job, and since they are already getting a check, why not put them back in use, and protect our children.
    Its a win-win. Children are protected, and some disabled and retired officers can make extra money, and still be of service to the community.
    My understanding is that this is partly what Israel does.
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

  12. #42
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    Re: Hardening K-12 school facilities: suggestions?

    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    I would say that suicide by teacher...10 minutes before the cops can get there is certainly fine with me.
    Are you volunteering your spare time? :)

    ...
    The problem with the world is grown-ups behaving like unsupervised children.
    There is a solution but we are not Jedi... not yet.
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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doghandler View Post
    Are you volunteering your spare time? :)

    ...
    The problem with the world is grown-ups behaving like unsupervised children.

    Already served my time...41 years!
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  14. #44
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    What's an interesting parallel between the Portland Mall shooting and the Sandy Hook according to some of the news that has cleared up is that both perp's committed suicide when the good guys were near. The mall shooter shot himself when Nick Meli confronted him with his Glock. The Sandy Hook incident ended when he heard the sirens according to the reports. He had way more magazines on him that he didn't use. It's a crazy notion but the Israeli's might just have it right. At the very least, some Tasers on hand would be a start. Wonder about the legality of carrying one to schools?
    Jim

  15. #45
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    It's a crazy notion but the Israeli's might just have it right.
    Look at the Israeli RESULTS: Massad Ayoob

    After the Ma’alot massacre in 1974, Israel instituted a policy in which volunteer school personnel, parents, and grandparents received special training from the civil guard, and were seeded throughout the schools armed with discreetly concealed 9mm semiautomatic pistols. Since that time, there has been no successful mass murder at an Israeli school, and every attempt at such has been quickly shortstopped by the good guys’ gunfire, with minimal casualties among the innocent. Similar programs are in place in Peru and the Phillippines, with similarly successful results.
    This is not guesswork, supposition or wild-eyed dreaming.

    Arm the teachers, administrators, and volunteers!
    64zebra likes this.

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