Toxic NCOs - Page 2

Toxic NCOs

This is a discussion on Toxic NCOs within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; No matter your billet or rank, you shouldn't be working less than the people you're in charge of. If your men are uncomfortable and tired, ...

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  1. #16
    Senior Member Array Cold Shot's Avatar
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    No matter your billet or rank, you shouldn't be working less than the people you're in charge of. If your men are uncomfortable and tired, you have to be uncomfortable and tired with them, and maybe even more so, even if you have certain amenities available that a young E2 might not.


  2. #17
    Senior Member Array BkCo1's Avatar
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    Rank has its privileges. The NCOs have work to do also and that means not doing menial tasks like guard duty or cleaning the head. Carry on!
    OldCorps likes this.
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  3. #18
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    Doesn't take much more than longevity to get promoted so yes, there are dirt bags at every rank. There are dirt bag Sgt Maj/Col/Sgt/Pvt all over in every branch. You should try the USAF, where 95% basically work a civ job and are taught, by doctrine, to be huge D-bags.

    Here's the thing... The NCO doesn't just take care of his troops, he also supervises them, and provides the boot to their seat when it's needed. The barracks lawyer type who watches them, and judges them, undermines that and it is he who is truly toxic. Maybe the Platoon Sgt wants his NCOs frosty for the op, or just needs them for something else and tells them they're not pulling guard duty. I have personally done that when I got sick of doing their job because they were at the gate chewing tobacco and shooting the breeze. There's too many variables and for that reason, we don't question authority. That's just how it works bro.

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array boricua's Avatar
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    Well, it's been almost 10 years since I retired from the US Army, but I still remember a little document called the DA (Dept of the Army)-6, which is a Duty Roster used to ensure proper coverage and rotation of any task. The NCOIC would likely be the one using the DA-6 to assign personnel for duty, based on availability and status of personnel. I would suggest you go through your chain of command to revise the duty roster.

    There are good people and bad people everywhere, and the military is not exempt. Although, I had my less than stellar leaders while I served, it was up to me who I wanted to emulate. As a young troop, I spit-shined my boots and pressed my BDUs every night, kept my nose clean, and did what I was told to do without complaints.

    Yes, NCOs are supposed to lead by example and take care of their soldiers, but there might be other mission essential tasks, relative to their skill level, that those NCOs you are referring to are performing; information that likely do not pertain to you at your pay grade. Your concerns should be addressed with your direct supervisor to allow him/her to take any necessary action and put you and your peers at ease with this issue, while preventing a morale problem.

    Stay alert, stay alive. Keep your eyes open. Watch and learn. Pick your role models, emulate their actions, and "Be all you can be."
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  5. #20
    VIP Member Array SpencerB's Avatar
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    I understand and am explaining a situation I see and don't agree with. E5's lead by example translation-pulling guard duty as well especially when 1SG's, warrant officers and O4's are doing their part.

  6. #21
    VIP Member Array SpencerB's Avatar
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    All I am saying is that if this unit's 1SG, XO, and CO can pull guard so can these E5's

  7. #22
    VIP Member Array boricua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpencerB View Post
    All I am saying is that if this unit's 1SG, XO, and CO can pull guard so can these E5's
    Well, if your 1SG, XO and CO are pulling guard duty and your Junior NCOs are not, then is not an NCO problem. Either, your unit is screwed up or there is a very good reason for the E5s not being on the duty roster. Another question, is the Duty Roster posted for all soldiers to see? Are the names of the 1SG, XO and CO on it?
    BkCo1 likes this.
    Duty, Honor, Country...MEDIC!!!
    ¡Cuánto duele crecer, cuan hondo es el dolor de alzarse en puntillas y observar con temblores de angustia, esa cosa tremenda, que es la vida del hombre! - René Marqués

  8. #23
    Senior Member Array RKflorida's Avatar
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    Quit worrying about what the NCO's are doing and worry instead about doing your job to the best of your ability. Leading by example does not mean the NCO is going to do the same job as you. Sometimes they do, sometimes they have other jobs to do. Other obligations, other considerations that you know nothing of.
    OldCorps and bigmacque like this.

  9. #24
    Member Array OldCorps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpencerB View Post
    I just want to hear some stories about some horrible NCO's people have met throughout their career. Some NCO's that I know feel that because they are sergeants that they don't have to pull guard shift on our FOB with their soldiers. The platoon rolls out everyday for 12 hours and every night they have guard from 2200-0200. There are 8 soldiers pulling guard 2 per night so every 4 days they have guard shift. Their NCO's don't rotate themselves in at all. I feel this is horrible leadership and pure laziness especially when I have seen 1SG's, Chiefs and Captains pulling guard.
    My gawd, what are the world coming to? Why, back in the Fifties the DI's at Parris Island would always chip in and stand clothes-line-watch, just so we wouldn't feel they thought they were better than us. They would bring us cookies and milk when we were tired, and read us bedtime stories, so as to make the nasty military life just a wee bit nicer. Then, later, at Lejeune, we were never made to stand guard-duty... the Gunnies, Master Sergeants, even the Tops would "rotate themselves in " just to "set a good example" for all the Privates, PFC's, and Corporals. Everybody knows the NCO's and Staff NCO's have nothing at all to do watching out for squads, platoons, companies, etc., pounding dirt around a motor-pool or ammo-dump, just to show their rank-and-file pogues that they are just one of the guys. They are NOT just one of the guys, son. They've BEEN THERE AND DONE THAT. They've got other—MORE IMPORTANT—jobs to do, like lookin' out for your sorry arses. I know that when I became a sergeant, I would never be so downright nasty as to expect my troops to stand that boring old guard duty. I'd always do, at least, 75% of it myself. After all, NCO's, Staff NCO's, and Officers have no duties to perform, just like on MASH, huh? Just goof around, sleep under jeeps, and play pranks on each other.

    You say you've seen "1SG's, Chiefs and Captains pulling guard." What military are you in?, the Bahamian Boy Scouts? The only Guard Duty I ever saw officers pulling was called "Officer of the Day", and they weren't babysitting ammo-dumps, they were making sure you guys weren't copping a smoke in the bushes, or whining to the civilian public about the "unfairness" of the chain-of-command.

    Jeeze! Next thing, the U.S. Armed Forces will be members of the AFL-CIO, and will be striking for "fair practice within the ranks".

    Sorry to sound so brash, my man, but you aired your whine on a public forum. I can't give you any cheese with that whine but, if I were your CO, I'd see that you'd have a permanent new MOS: #0000, Specialist, Guard Duty,Permanent, M1A13.
    "Men fight for liberty and win it with hard knocks. Their children, brought up easy, let it slip away again, poor fools. And their grandchildren are once more slaves." D.H. Lawrence

  10. #25
    Distinguished Member Array chuckusaret's Avatar
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    I do believe the OP would be singing a different song if he were to be promoted to E-6 or E-7. There is a job description for every job by grade and as did most NCO's your present superiors struggled through each before attaining their E-6/7/8 or 9 pay grade. I spent a little time in the Army and never saw an E-7 or above pull guard duty, as a E-7 I pulled battalion and brigade duty NCO, and as a 1stSgt I never performed any other duties outside of my normal company 1stSgt duties. E-6's pulled sgt of the guard, spec 5's corporal of the guard and e-4's to E-1 private of the guard. Lt's and Capt's pulled battalion duty officer and majors and LtCol's pulled brigade and Division duty officer. Warrant officers had all they could do just to handle their flying duties. LOL

    As a E-7 I did lead combat patrols in Vietnam on a volunteer basis and also flew as a helicopter door gunner when necessary as did many of our non rated junior officers but never as a 1stSgt.

    You are lucky son, in Vietnam 16 of my troops pulled bunker guard 4hrs on and 4 hrs off at least one day a week plus were given no time off after their 24 hr shift ended and went straight to their normal(s) duties. Chin up son, stay in long enough and quit whinning you might get promoted to E-7 and be allowed just to hang out as they do.

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  11. #26
    Distinguished Member Array bigmacque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpencerB View Post
    All I am saying is that if this unit's 1SG, XO, and CO can pull guard so can these E5's
    If that units 1SG, XO and CO are pulling guard duty and not complaining then it's really not any of your business.
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  12. #27
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    I don't know how the Army does it, but I've never seen a USMC 1stSgt, XO, or CO pulling firewatch/FOB security...
    pittypat21 likes this.

  13. #28
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    Only thing I can say for sure is that the platoon would love having you in it if I was one of your NCOs. You'd be standing guard every night, so they'd all get a big more of a break between shifts.

    Each rank has a mission to perform. Your mission is to do as you are told, nothing more and nothing less. The NCOs know what they are doing and the roster is set as it is for a reason. You don't know what they do and what is required of them, and with that attitude I sincerely hope you never will. Yes, rank has privileges but it also has responsibilities that you can't even begin to understand.
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  14. #29
    Senior Member Array Luis50's Avatar
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    What? SpencerB, I really am smiling as I read your post. You're a young man. In time you'll see that what you're experiencing is called life.

    I think one of the Army's new slogans is "You made them strong, We'll make them Army strong". In a nutshell this means, hold on to the values your parents/caregivers gave you and the Army will teach you some lasting life lessons.

    You're learning one of them right now. God Bless You and thanks for your service.
    Luis

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  15. #30
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    Sign of a good NCO: Been there, done that and has the tee shirt to prove it.
    bigmacque likes this.
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