SO now Americans living abroad can be taken out with drones - Page 2

SO now Americans living abroad can be taken out with drones

This is a discussion on SO now Americans living abroad can be taken out with drones within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I guess my point in the starting of this is where's the burden of proof? I guess you people have forgotten that some veterans are ...

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Thread: SO now Americans living abroad can be taken out with drones

  1. #16
    Member Array 8th ID's Avatar
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    I guess my point in the starting of this is where's the burden of proof? I guess you people have forgotten that some veterans are now being thought of as domestic terrorists.
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  2. #17
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    My 2 cents on this is based on years of experience in the area and trying to find BG's. I am not fundamentally opposed to strikes against US citizens directly involved in terrorism direct directly against the US. The problem I have is the following:
    1. Drone strikes can be used for political gain- Killing a terrorists with an air strike makes the news and give this or any administration bragging rights.
    2. If a high level terrorists in this situation is captured the intelligence community might want to keep it quiet. Yes, the BG's will know very soon that he was caught, but they might not know what was captured on him or in the area he was in. A bomb strike leaves all possible intelligence that could have been gathered there. So in essence you killed a person, possibly not stopped any plans.
    3. Collateral damage- Yes, we may not care about all of the innocents (yes, innocents are there-children, servants, and others) but it does not look good for us in the worlds eyes. It is a fact of life that we have to deal with other countries (which I would rather not).
    4. How effective these strikes are is dependant on many things. Was there someone there to step in for the leadership role? Was this person really that important to risk compromising intelligence gathering techniques. Let me clarify that point. If the BG taken out and his associates have not been using certain technologies then the surviving terrorists can surmise how we found out where the BG was. Tha could compromise people on the ground giving us info or other methods of intelligence

    My personal feeling is that if you have the location and the dude is that far up the leadership chain taking him out with a drone strike is the last thing you want to do.
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by bombthrower77 View Post
    I would argue that the possibility of increased terrorism is a fair tradeoff for maintaining a strictly limited government. If you read the opinion, it's clear that this justification can be used against anyone, anywhere.
    I just scanned through that document and though I wouldn't agree with the very broad assertion you posted,
    I do find it troubling that the justification is based in part on a case arising from a Social Security Disability claim.

    The argument that the test of due process given in Mathews v Eldridge---

    [A three-part test that determines whether an individual has received due process under the Constitution. The test balances (1) the importance of the interest at stake; (2) the risk of an erroneous deprivation of the interest because of the procedures used, and the probable value of additional procedural safeguards; and (3) the government's interest.]

    should apply to this grave a matter in comparison to the disability claim seems a bit over the top.

    The analogy of a balance of "government interest" v "life of the accused" is a bit stretched when death is the end point
    as compared to a loss of disability payments.
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  4. #19
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    Yes, as an LEO I do know the difference. As an LEO, I advice them of their rights under Miranda

    As a former combat Marine, I drop the hammer.
    When war is declared , and you take sides with the enemy, and engage in their activities, which include mass destruction on US property, you get what they get.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  5. #20
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    It has a good purpose for getting rid of American enemy traitors working to do us harm as a country overseas, but ALWAYS check the "fine print", because maybe it can be used on YOU.

    How can it be abused. Take out someone who doesn't agree with policy overseas?? Are we sure it can't be used HERE? Too vague and too many questions. Too much power for this Administration.

    You think people would learn from the "gems" hidden into the Obama Care Law. We have just started down the road of this "fresh hell".
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  6. #21
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    Spirit51, I do agree that it should be scrutinized to make sure it's used in a legitimate way.
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    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spirit51 View Post
    It has a good purpose for getting rid of American enemy traitors working to do us harm as a country overseas, but ALWAYS check the "fine print", because maybe it can be used on YOU.

    How can it be abused. Take out someone who doesn't agree with policy overseas?? Are we sure it can't be used HERE? Too vague and too many questions. Too much power for this Administration.

    You think people would learn from the "gems" hidden into the Obama Care Law. We have just started down the road of this "fresh hell".
    Too much power for ANY administration.
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  8. #23
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmhawth View Post
    That's just a silly assumption.

    I don't agree with allowing people who align themselves with terrorist organizations who make war on the US to hide behind that very US citizenship when accounts come due. Want to be a terrorist expect all the consequences any terrorist can expect.
    Does the memo say "Terrorists Only". Do they define what they consider "Terrorist" or "Terrorist Threat". Have we seen the "fine print".

    What they label for public consumption may NOT be the entire story. They are "marketing" it for the best reaction. Don't you know what Alexrod is a expert in?? Professional Advertising and Marketing. He isn't the only one.
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  9. #24
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    I really do understand the OP's point.

    However, given our open-border policy, we have a situation where Osama Bin Ladin could have easily been a US citizen. I'm sure we have worse as I type this.

    For now, I'd prefer our knowledge of our corrupt leadership not to preclude the good efforts of competent security agencies.

    Slippery slope my butt. We've already fallen off the cliff with the last election. It's about survival now, which includes good tactical decision making.
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  10. #25
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    What if other countries were to use drones to take out their exiled past dictators now living in America who they view as a threat to their country. Any attack on a foreign nation, without given permission, is an act of war and retaliation would be justified. Question; how many countries would give their permission to kill one rogue American by drone attack and put the safety/lives of their citizens at risk?....
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  11. #26
    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHEC724 View Post
    Slippery slope my butt. We've already fallen off the cliff with the last election. It's about survival now, which includes good tactical decision making.
    OMG! That is such a true and great line.
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Yes, as an LEO I do know the difference. As an LEO, I advice them of their rights under Miranda

    As a former combat Marine, I drop the hammer.
    When war is declared , and you take sides with the enemy, and engage in their activities, which include mass destruction on US property, you get what they get.
    See my previous post about my thoughts on the policy. But, for fun, let us use your analogy of people involved in "mass destruction on US property". Using Anwar al-Aulaqi as an example...is there enough evidence in a court of law (and I am not talking about lawyer tricks and loopholes to get him off) to convict him of anything? Is there even enough evidence to warrant an arrest. Now, of course he is a BG....but, if that is the amount of evidence our government needs to take out a US citizen suspected of something specific (in this case, 9/11) then that sir is scary depending on who is POTUS at any given time.
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    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

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  13. #28
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    I find it surprising how many on here (probably near 100%) would fight tooth and nail to ensure the 2nd amendment stays as it is, yet due process (5th, 14th amendment) can just be ignored because they are "terrorists". Too many preach of government hypocrisy on here as well, but all they need to do is look in the mirror!

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckusaret View Post
    What if other countries were to use drones to take out their exiled past dictators now living in America who they view as a threat to their country. Any attack on a foreign nation, without given permission, is an act of war and retaliation would be justified. Question; how many countries would give their permission to kill one rogue American by drone attack and put the safety/lives of their citizens at risk?....
    It's called Theatre of operations, which has been established. They host, we toast.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaySkiBum View Post
    I find it surprising how many on here (probably near 100%) would fight tooth and nail to ensure the 2nd amendment stays as it is, yet due process (5th, 14th amendment) can just be ignored because they are "terrorists". Too many preach of government hypocrisy on here as well, but all they need to do is look in the mirror!
    I did look in the mirror, and I look damn good for my age.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

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