SO now Americans living abroad can be taken out with drones

This is a discussion on SO now Americans living abroad can be taken out with drones within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; It is a slippery slope when we condone the violation of any citizen's right to a trial by a jury of his peers. I understand ...

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Thread: SO now Americans living abroad can be taken out with drones

  1. #76
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    It is a slippery slope when we condone the violation of any citizen's right to a trial by a jury of his peers. I understand the practical aspects but it is wrong when we allow the government to make exceptions. Yes, he was a terrorist and the world is probably better for his passing, BUT he was an American citizen. Charles Manson is a despicable human who deserves to suffer the fate of his victims but does that give a "high level government official" the authority to have him killed when the law gave him life imprisonment? (Probably a poor example but I think it makes the point) My problem is with allowing the ok of a "high level government official" to violate the rights of a citizen. What if the government decides your loved one doesn't act in their interests and a "high level government official" ok's taking them out? Anytime we allow the violation of any of our rights we are setting the stage for an escalation by a "high level government official".
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  3. #77
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    This is the most concerning and chilling thing I've seen yet. In most part because there is actually no geographic limit and they are exempting themselves from the legal process. There's no accountability. Once they declare they CAN do this on domestic soil, they will. And they will decide who is a "threat" and not. And the individual will have been denied their rights to due process. It's all fine when it's a guy in a dishiki hiding in a cave on the other side of the world. It's another when the car pulls up to your house because of something you posted on an online blog that they decide is a "threat" to government (you know, like all of this you're not taking our 2A, we will fight, time to overthrow, etc.).

    Kill List Exposed: Leaked Obama Memo Shows Assassination of U.S. Citizens "Has No Geographic Limit"

    From the link:

    They’re not actually saying, "We have the right to do this." They haven’t actually filed any of those arguments in court. Instead what they’re arguing is: This question of whether the government acted lawfully or not is a political question committed to the political branches, and the judges have no role to play, no role whatsoever to play, in assessing whether the killing of an American citizen was lawful or not.

    AMY GOODMAN: How does it stop? Where does it stop? You kill them in Yemen, American citizens and others—no trial, no charge. What about in the United States?

    JAMEEL JAFFER: There’s no line. You know, if you look at the memo, the briefing paper that was released yesterday, there’s no geographic line. And you can remember how most of the country reacted when President Bush declared the authority to hold American citizens detained in the United States: Most of the country said, "You can’t be serious. You’re going to treat the United States as part of the battlefield. You’re going to detain American citizens inside the United States as enemy combatants." And now, the Obama administration—you know, if you accept the memo on its face, you accept the briefing paper on its face, the Obama administration is making, in some ways, a greater claim of authority. They’re arguing that the authority to kill American citizens has no geographic limit.
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  4. #78
    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
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    I could find no issue with a drone taking out a BG that has it coming. Don't really care where.
    Here is my problem, This comes from a bunch that ran on it not being legal at any time. That wanted the last president impeached for even suggesting water boarding.
    The president him self made it clear it was not even legal to go after a citizen in another country now he changes his tune.
    Who will hold him to the fire? No one he is King.
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  5. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty901 View Post
    I could find no issue with a drone taking out a BG that has it coming. Don't really care where.
    Here is my problem, This comes from a bunch that ran on it not being legal at any time. That wanted the last president impeached for even suggesting water boarding.
    The president him self made it clear it was not even legal to go after a citizen in another country now he changes his tune.
    Who will hold him to the fire? No one he is King.
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  6. #80
    Distinguished Member Array chuckusaret's Avatar
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    ‘‘We, the People are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts — not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow men who pervert the Constitution.’’
    — Abraham Lincoln

  7. #81
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    Well, if it has no geographic limit, then please allow to me to change my opinion.

    This is totally unacceptable.
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  8. #82
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Well, if it has no geographic limit, then please allow to me to change my opinion.

    This is totally unacceptable.
    Thought you knew that......
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

  9. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Thought you knew that......
    No I didn't. I thought it was for only overseas operation against know terrorist groups.

    Bring it to our soil is a game changer for me.
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    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  10. #84
    Distinguished Member Array chuckusaret's Avatar
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    ‘‘We, the People are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts — not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow men who pervert the Constitution.’’
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  11. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    This is the most concerning and chilling thing I've seen yet. In most part because there is actually no geographic limit and they are exempting themselves from the legal process. There's no accountability. Once they declare they CAN do this on domestic soil, they will. And they will decide who is a "threat" and not. And the individual will have been denied their rights to due process. It's all fine when it's a guy in a dishiki hiding in a cave on the other side of the world. It's another when the car pulls up to your house because of something you posted on an online blog that they decide is a "threat" to government (you know, like all of this you're not taking our 2A, we will fight, time to overthrow, etc.).

    Kill List Exposed: Leaked Obama Memo Shows Assassination of U.S. Citizens "Has No Geographic Limit"

    From the link:

    They’re not actually saying, "We have the right to do this." They haven’t actually filed any of those arguments in court. Instead what they’re arguing is: This question of whether the government acted lawfully or not is a political question committed to the political branches, and the judges have no role to play, no role whatsoever to play, in assessing whether the killing of an American citizen was lawful or not.

    AMY GOODMAN: How does it stop? Where does it stop? You kill them in Yemen, American citizens and others—no trial, no charge. What about in the United States?

    JAMEEL JAFFER: There’s no line. You know, if you look at the memo, the briefing paper that was released yesterday, there’s no geographic line. And you can remember how most of the country reacted when President Bush declared the authority to hold American citizens detained in the United States: Most of the country said, "You can’t be serious. You’re going to treat the United States as part of the battlefield. You’re going to detain American citizens inside the United States as enemy combatants." And now, the Obama administration—you know, if you accept the memo on its face, you accept the briefing paper on its face, the Obama administration is making, in some ways, a greater claim of authority. They’re arguing that the authority to kill American citizens has no geographic limit.
    That is disturbing.

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  12. #86
    Distinguished Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I don't like this particular practice or law, but as I often say, we live in a practical world. And as a practical matter
    these "extrajudicial" acts are necessary for our protection from terrorists...
    Are They? That's a scary statement!

  13. #87
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    All of a sudden the possibility of nefariousness related to those lists of mysterious deaths over on the CONSPIRACY THEORY thread don't seem so far fetched anymore, huh? All they have to do is deem you an enemy of the state and you're toast. No charges, no evidence, no trial, no habeas corpus, hokus pokus, or nothing. You're just dead.

    Now think about all of these pro 2A guys that were posting youtube stuff about not giving up their guns, fighting, time to overthrow, etc. Perhaps they were deemed a threat, insighting violence against the govt. When they said "when you pry them from my cold dead hands" seems like someone may have taken that as a challenge. In any event, there are rights getting trampled all over these days and no one seems to see it for what it is. This is scary stuff my friends.
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
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  14. #88
    Distinguished Member Array chuckusaret's Avatar
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    I, for the life of me, can not imagine an American that would agree to allow the assassination of another American by our government without any judicial review. But, there are some on this forum that would. It is also quite evident that our military that control the flight of the drones will attack and kill American citizens without question.

    If one American is denied his rights by our government, you or I could be next.
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    ‘‘We, the People are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts — not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow men who pervert the Constitution.’’
    — Abraham Lincoln

  15. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    All of a sudden the possibility of nefariousness related to those lists of mysterious deaths over on the CONSPIRACY THEORY thread don't seem so far fetched anymore, huh? All they have to do is deem you an enemy of the state and you're toast. No charges, no evidence, no trial, no habeas corpus, hokus pokus, or nothing. You're just dead.

    Now think about all of these pro 2A guys that were posting youtube stuff about not giving up their guns, fighting, time to overthrow, etc. Perhaps they were deemed a threat, insighting violence against the govt. When they said "when you pry them from my cold dead hands" seems like someone may have taken that as a challenge. In any event, there are rights getting trampled all over these days and no one seems to see it for what it is. This is scary stuff my friends.
    Anybody seen anything of Yeager lately?
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  16. #90
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Anybody seen anything of Yeager lately?
    Maybe the wrong guy took him up on his challenge.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

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