Talking to a police officer

This is a discussion on Talking to a police officer within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; This guy got stopped for open carrying. I am not sure I agree with how this was handled, but he did win. http://www.facebook.com/video/embed?...=4563675967640...

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 40
Like Tree39Likes

Thread: Talking to a police officer

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array ExactlyMyPoint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    2,917

    Talking to a police officer

    This guy got stopped for open carrying. I am not sure I agree with how this was handled, but he did win.

    http://www.facebook.com/video/embed?...=4563675967640
    Preparing for the Zombie Apocalypse or Rapture....whichever comes first.

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    Senior Member
    Array bombthrower77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    527
    This guy goes looking for trouble to make a point, and I'm glad he does it as an educational service. Many police don't know the law.
    "There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." ~ P. J. O'Rourke

  4. #3
    Ex Member Array humblenutto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    108
    So we have a case of a guy walking around legally with a firearm. Some uppity person calling into the cops complaining about a gun in plain view. Then the cops responding when they should have just blown the call off. Cop shows up and makes illegal demands of the person with the gun. The person with the gun refuses demands and asks for the cops supervisor. While waiting for the supervisor the cop keeps making demands while the person states laws, legal precedents, and court rulings to the cop. Finally supervisor shows up and tells the first cop he's wrong. Person gets let go while the original cop gets poo poo on by the supervisor.

    The problem is cops are regular people. We hope that the training and education they have received is enough to know what to do in a legal situation which is the proper discharge of their duties. They are appointed with proper enforcement of the law and to enforce the law properly they need to know it well. Many do, and some do not as this video shows.
    NONAME762 and crossfireltd like this.

  5. #4
    Distinguished Member Array chuckusaret's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    SE Florida
    Posts
    1,627
    I don't agree with baiting the law with open carrying but this cop lacked proper training and you are correct in that some street officers don't know the law. In my community they do have enough common sense to call for their Sgt. and/or Lt. Saves bad press and legal fees in most cases.
    357and40 likes this.
    US Army 1953-1977

    ‘‘We, the People are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts — not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow men who pervert the Constitution.’’
    — Abraham Lincoln

  6. #5
    Ex Member Array humblenutto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    108
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckusaret View Post
    I don't agree with baiting the law with open carrying but you are correct in that some street officers don't know the law but in my community they do have enough common sense to call for their Sgt. and/or Lt. Saves bad press and legal fees in most
    cases.
    How is it baiting?

    It's legal to open carry in some places and legal to making recordings of all your actions. Youtube is replete with videos like this. If you are going to open carry in a place that allows you to open carry you need to know the laws even more. And when a cop shows up to violate the law you need to know how to stand your ground.

    How is a legal activity baiting?
    RookWV, Crowman and NONAME762 like this.

  7. #6
    VIP Member
    Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    S. Florida, north of the Miami mess, south of the Mouse trap
    Posts
    14,563
    Was he baiting, or was he simply prepared for an encounter with the ignorant? Evidently he was more aware of his legal rights than some.
    RookWV likes this.
    Retired USAF E-8. Avatar is OldVet from days long gone. Oh, to be young again.
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  8. #7
    VIP Member Array NONAME762's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    About 235M out of The Palouse WA
    Posts
    5,531
    Great answer Humblenutto. The OC does everything RIGHT. JMHO but the cop proves once again what a Gomer looks like up close and personal. The Supervisor deserves everyone's applause for knowing the law in this regard. Too bad the Supervisor is the exception in typical OC stops of a MWAG call from a typical brainwashed sheep.

    I just have to take issue with your statement that "[B]cops are regular people.[B] The moment the cop dons the uniform, badge and gun (in my view) and starts his/her shift they become a Revenue Collector. Revenue collectors have but one purpose and ultimately that is to incarcerate you and bleed you for fines, court costs and jail time. Plus while the typical cop is wasting time with a LEGAL Open Carrier I'm sure somewhere else a REAL crime is in progress somewhere.

    One would hope the Supervisor read the offending officer [I]the Riot Act[I] for his unprofessional behavior. This department needs to hold a class for ALL THEIR OFFICERS of the Proper Way in dealing with citizens who Open Carry.
    Last edited by NONAME762; February 23rd, 2013 at 07:18 PM.

  9. #8
    VIP Member Array Taurahe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Indianapolis IN
    Posts
    2,696
    I will be the Dissenting voice........ The officer maintained his professionalism and didnt yell at the individual or threaten him, and as a LEO I feel he was well within his right to remove the individuals weapon and ask/demand for his ID. How is he supposed to ascertain his legal status to carry with out it? The officer goes off of information provided. He was told a man had a gun. A man did have a gun. He was attempting to determine the scope of the situation and make sure the guy was not a criminal. I am ok with that. The cop doesnt know this guy from anyone else.... I wouldnt trust him either. Personally I think the individual was out of line in refusing to provide indentification. Was the officer to assume this guy was legal based on his word? I wouldnt. If this guy would have just given the officer his ID, he could have been on his way with no troubles, but he wanted to make it more trouble than it needed to be. If you are going to OC, then you have to expect this at some point. It is on the OC'er to handle it with professionalism and responsibility. This guy did none of that. IMO he gave carriers a bad name.
    Lnafree, PAPADALE1, RMS and 1 others like this.
    ”God grants Liberty only to those who love it, and are always ready to guard and defend it.”
    ~Daniel Webster

    Your points are shallow... my points are Hollow....

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    3,552
    Quote Originally Posted by Taurahe View Post
    I will be the Dissenting voice........ The officer maintained his professionalism and didnt yell at the individual or threaten him, and as a LEO I feel he was well within his right to remove the individuals weapon and ask/demand for his ID. How is he supposed to ascertain his legal status to carry with out it? The officer goes off of information provided. He was told a man had a gun. A man did have a gun. He was attempting to determine the scope of the situation and make sure the guy was not a criminal. I am ok with that. The cop doesnt know this guy from anyone else.... I wouldnt trust him either. Personally I think the individual was out of line in refusing to provide indentification. Was the officer to assume this guy was legal based on his word? I wouldnt. If this guy would have just given the officer his ID, he could have been on his way with no troubles, but he wanted to make it more trouble than it needed to be. If you are going to OC, then you have to expect this at some point. It is on the OC'er to handle it with professionalism and responsibility. This guy did none of that. IMO he gave carriers a bad name.
    I agree that the LEO remained professional. As to the bold part, he has no reason to ascertain his legal status to carry, as the guy wasn't suspected of doing anything wrong (which was mostly his point). If OC is legal, why do the police have to respond to calls about people OC'ing? Would the police respond to a "Man with a car" call and ascertain someone's legal right to drive without any other PC?
    oneshot and atctimmy like this.
    I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it.
    Clint Eastwood

  11. #10
    Ex Member Array F350's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Rocky Mountain High in Colorado
    Posts
    1,706
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckusaret View Post
    I don't agree with baiting the law with open carrying but this cop lacked proper training and you are correct in that some street officers don't know the law. In my community they do have enough common sense to call for their Sgt. and/or Lt. Saves bad press and legal fees in most cases.
    So walking down the street minding your own Flipping business OCing where legal is BAITING!!! I can't help but think you fall into the camp of "she was asking for it" when a woman is sexually assaulted!!!!

    Open carrying where legal is not baiting!!!

  12. #11
    Ex Member Array humblenutto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    108
    Quote Originally Posted by Taurahe View Post
    I will be the Dissenting voice........ The officer maintained his professionalism and didnt yell at the individual or threaten him, and as a LEO I feel he was well within his right to remove the individuals weapon and ask/demand for his ID. How is he supposed to ascertain his legal status to carry with out it? The officer goes off of information provided. He was told a man had a gun. A man did have a gun. He was attempting to determine the scope of the situation and make sure the guy was not a criminal. I am ok with that. The cop doesnt know this guy from anyone else.... I wouldnt trust him either. Personally I think the individual was out of line in refusing to provide indentification. Was the officer to assume this guy was legal based on his word? I wouldnt. If this guy would have just given the officer his ID, he could have been on his way with no troubles, but he wanted to make it more trouble than it needed to be. If you are going to OC, then you have to expect this at some point. It is on the OC'er to handle it with professionalism and responsibility. This guy did none of that. IMO he gave carriers a bad name.
    A regular cop is not going to know 99% of the people he comes into contact with in the course of his duties as an officer when responding a call. The cop, like anyone, has a right to certainly ask for ID, name, and well anything else. If the law allows, the person has a right to refuse (which most places have laws that allow refusal). Once an answer is given by an individual, the cop must follow the law as that is their duty. Unless a reasonable articulation of a crime or suspicion of a crime is in place, the LEO must abide by the laws as well. Personally I see this more as improper training of LEO's in these instances in regards to open carry places. As a LEO, I can understand concern and personal suspicion about someone openly carrying a firearm. But don't let personal feelings rule the job an officer is appointed with doing.

    In the video, the first officer was polite in the way he was talking, but not polite in his actions in my opinion. By detaining the person and seizing his firearm first, the officer has broken the law. Just because a LEO is an enforcer of the law does not give the right to break or be above the law.

    Here is a great video of an officer properly handling a call to a man with a gun in an Open Carry friendly area.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNFkWsvo0X0

    Cop walks up to individual. Asks if he is open carry. Asks for name and ID. Individual says by law they aren't required to give it. Officer states they are right and lets them go on their way. That is the PROPER way for a LEO in that particular area to handle that situation. No drama, no feelings of butthurt, and no broken laws.


    EDIT one other thing to point out. You mentioned as a fellow law enforcement officer that you think the cop was right to illegaly seize his weapon, detain him to ask for ID. You state because you feel it is reasonable for an officer to do so to ascertain a person's legal right to carry. The thing is, that is not how the law is for that area. When the person in the video asks the officer is the officer has reason to believe he is a felon or in the commission of a crime and the officer responds, "No" that is the end of the encounter. By law, an officer must assume a person is legally allowed to carry unless they have reasonable means to believe otherwise. Demanding ID to be 100% positive if the guy was legal or not is breaking the law by the LEO in original video.
    Brad426, NONAME762 and Ghost1958 like this.

  13. #12
    Member Array Lnafree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Hot Springs, AR
    Posts
    42
    Yeah, I would've just given my ID. Probably would've been over. I think I get why he didn't want to. If a report WAS filed, then ends up as a write up in the local paper. Still, could have ended much worse, with a different LEO.
    "As the economy gets weak, the dollar loses value. Invest in precious metals." I'm investing in lead.

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    3,552
    Quote Originally Posted by humblenutto View Post
    A regular cop is not going to know 99% of the people he comes into contact with in the course of his duties as an officer when responding a call. The cop, like anyone, has a right to certainly ask for ID, name, and well anything else. If the law allows, the person has a right to refuse (which most places have laws that allow refusal). Once an answer is given by an individual, the cop must follow the law as that is their duty. Unless a reasonable articulation of a crime or suspicion of a crime is in place, the LEO must abide by the laws as well. Personally I see this more as improper training of LEO's in these instances in regards to open carry places. As a LEO, I can understand concern and personal suspicion about someone openly carrying a firearm. But don't let personal feelings rule the job an officer is appointed with doing.

    In the video, the first officer was polite in the way he was talking, but not polite in his actions in my opinion. By detaining the person and seizing his firearm first, the officer has broken the law. Just because a LEO is an enforcer of the law does not give the right to break or be above the law.

    Here is a great video of an officer properly handling a call to a man with a gun in an Open Carry friendly area.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNFkWsvo0X0

    Cop walks up to individual. Asks if he is open carry. Asks for name and ID. Individual says by law they aren't required to give it. Officer states they are right and lets them go on their way. That is the PROPER way for a LEO in that particular area to handle that situation. No drama, no feelings of butthurt, and no broken laws.
    I hate butthurt.
    I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it.
    Clint Eastwood

  15. #14
    Ex Member Array F350's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Rocky Mountain High in Colorado
    Posts
    1,706
    Quote Originally Posted by Taurahe View Post
    I will be the Dissenting voice........ The officer maintained his professionalism and didnt yell at the individual or threaten him, and as a LEO I feel he was well within his right to remove the individuals weapon and ask/demand for his ID. How is he supposed to ascertain his legal status to carry with out it? The officer goes off of information provided. He was told a man had a gun. A man did have a gun. He was attempting to determine the scope of the situation and make sure the guy was not a criminal. I am ok with that. The cop doesnt know this guy from anyone else.... I wouldnt trust him either. Personally I think the individual was out of line in refusing to provide indentification. Was the officer to assume this guy was legal based on his word? I wouldnt. If this guy would have just given the officer his ID, he could have been on his way with no troubles, but he wanted to make it more trouble than it needed to be. If you are going to OC, then you have to expect this at some point. It is on the OC'er to handle it with professionalism and responsibility. This guy did none of that. IMO he gave carriers a bad name.
    So do you randomly pull over motorists just to ascertain their legal status to drive as well????????????? What was the RAS for the stop?? Some pantie wetter saying "OH MY GOD HE HAS A GUN?? What about "OH MY GOD HE IS DRIVING A CAR??? Would you pull someone over for that? The man was doing NOTHING that would lead a reasonable officer to to think there was illegal activity afoot!
    NONAME762 likes this.

  16. #15
    Member Array BelaOkmyx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    107
    The cop could have said "Yeah, you look a lot like a guy I arrested for battery 5 years ago" and spread him out over the hood of his car.

    Do not do this! You are not defending the Second Amendment, you are just making a cop nervous and making yourself look like an ass. The cop was polite, we need to be impeccable in our public demeanor if want our position to be respected by the public, which will ultimately be necessary if we wish to retain our rights. Mouthing off like some jerkhole pothead kid at a Ron Paul rally doesn't do it.

    Most cops respect the law and the Constitution and will be on your side if you are within the law. My response would have been "Certainly Officer, here is my carry permit (or ID where applicable.) I'm sorry if anyone was afraid of my gun. After you return it, I will conceal it if you think it is a public safety matter." After he stops his tenth open carrier and for the tenth time, was treated respectfully by a cooperative and law abiding person, then the cop may rethink questioning people for open carry. Trying to bully him isn't going to work; it will have the opposite effect.
    brentb636 and BurgerBoy like this.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

cop questioning open carry individual

Click on a term to search for related topics.