Are you a US citizen?

Are you a US citizen?

This is a discussion on Are you a US citizen? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I get his "principle" thing, but what is unconstitutional about asking whether you are a US citizen? Say yes and then refuse to answer any ...

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  1. #1
    VIP Member Array ExactlyMyPoint's Avatar
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    Are you a US citizen?



    I get his "principle" thing, but what is unconstitutional about asking whether you are a US citizen? Say yes and then refuse to answer any further questions unless you are being detained.

    On another note, they all know that they cannot detain him and ultimately let him go.
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  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array Rcher's Avatar
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    IANAL but it seems to me that these guys could have been detained for "obstruction of justice" by an investigator during the commission of his/her duties. I think they are lucky they werent dragged out of the vehicle and face planted into the pavement. All they had to do is answer a simple question. Total lack of respect to someone who is doing their job. I was brought up better than that.
    "Government is not the solution to our problem; government IS the problem". - Ronald Reagan 1981

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    Distinguished Member Array Exacto's Avatar
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    I don't see anything to be gained by kicking at rattlesnakes. Sooner or later your going to get bit.
    SCXDm9 and goldshellback like this.
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    I noticed they didn't show the video where they break the window and drag the pastor out of his car while he screams like a little girl.
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    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    I am glad he did it. Of course he was baiting them but he was correct. Funny how folks here are saying that they will fight to keep their guns and not let the government deny us our rights but say "pop poo" with this man when he is demonstrating that what the government is doing is wrong. In fact, it is a waste of resources if they can not detain you for not answering a question. What is the point of these checkpoints?
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
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    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rcher View Post
    IANAL but it seems to me that these guys could have been detained for "obstruction of justice" by an investigator during the commission of his/her duties. I think they are lucky they werent dragged out of the vehicle and face planted into the pavement. All they had to do is answer a simple question. Total lack of respect to someone who is doing their job. I was brought up better than that.
    I was brought up better, too, but the point (as I see it) is that the job those guys are being asked to do is unconstitutional.
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    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    I am glad he did it. Of course he was baiting them but he was correct. Funny how folks here are saying that they will fight to keep their guns and not let the government deny us our rights but say "pop poo" with this man when he is demonstrating that what the government is doing is wrong. In fact, it is a waste of resources if they can not detain you for not answering a question. What is the point of these checkpoints?
    Okay, that's a better way to say what I was posting while you were posting this. +1 on the whole thing being boondogglish (I just made that word up) and a total waste of our tax dollars.
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    Member Array tflhndn's Avatar
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    Papers Please....

    That's why I won't answer questions like this at a checkpoint.

    If I have not done something to give them probable cause, then I don't have any reason to talk to them.
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    VIP Member Array Snub44's Avatar
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    ...just showing a driver's license doesn't prove we're a US citizen, so what's the point of the checkpoint...and why do they do them well inside the border states...stopping folks they can tell by looking didn't just swim the river...
    ...what really burns me is the times when I was a cop in the 70s, and when I was running roofing crews here in the 80s and 90s...then number of times they'd make a "sweep" and round up hundreds...drive them downstate and turn them loose...NEVER take them to the border and watch them across...they said they didn' have the funding to do it right...
    ...follow the immigration laws as written...to the T...they worked well enough to build this country great...NOT enforcing them is PART of what's bleeding this country dry...
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  10. #10
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rcher View Post
    IANAL but it seems to me that these guys could have been detained for "obstruction of justice" by an investigator during the commission of his/her duties. I think they are lucky they werent dragged out of the vehicle and face planted into the pavement. All they had to do is answer a simple question. Total lack of respect to someone who is doing their job. I was brought up better than that.
    So, the RIGHT thing to do is to bow to authority when it is clearly wrong......not putting words in your mouth but that is what it amounts to. You know what, once I was asked for my SSN at the water dept when I moved. I did not put it on the form (they did not need it for a credit check or anything). I held the line up for about 10 minutes until the lady relented and said that it is not necessary. Guess what...the annoyed folks behind me now thought it was pretty cool and they did not provide a SSN or said they were going to ask that it be removed from their records.
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    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

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    Member Array DandLfam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exacto View Post
    I don't see anything to be gained by kicking at rattlesnakes. Sooner or later your going to get bit.
    +1 to this.

    Reminds me of the video where a fella' walks up to a traffic stop OC'ing.
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  12. #12
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    One thing I would like to add: this is not exactly like a dude OC'ing and a LEO stops him (whether he was baiting the LEO or it was an honest MWAG call). That is up to the judgement and training of the officer and possiblly protocol for that specific department. These stop are policy implemented by the Federal government. They are check points stopping people for no probable cause.
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    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

  13. #13
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    I agree with these guys using their rights but they had better be prepared to face the consequences of their actions, which it looks like they are with the cameras that they have.

    I must point out that these are checkpoints within our borders and not border crossings. Customs has a right to search your vehicle coming into the country if they so choose. You also have to have means to prove your citizenship when you try to enter our borders.

    Do not try this at a border entry point
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    VIP Member Array Snub44's Avatar
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    ...I don't know of any law that requires that I have to have means to prove my American citizenship to a Border Patrol officer who stops me...a driver's license won't prove that...who carries their birth certificate????

    ...this may be why to renew a TX drivers' license, they require you prove your citizenship...to help accomplish this...but mine hasn't needed renewing...so I have no means to prove on the side of the road WHERE I was born...is it legally required???

  15. #15
    Distinguished Member Array Rcher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    What is the point of these checkpoints?
    Quote Originally Posted by Brad426 View Post
    I was brought up better, too, but the point (as I see it) is that the job those guys are being asked to do is unconstitutional.

    These checkpoints appear to be going into the State of California. They stop everyone to make sure you are not bringing in fruits or vegetables or booze or something like that. To me its stupid but I have complied when I have gone there in the past. I guess I dont see what is unconstitutional about being asked if you are a U.S. Citizen or not. Who cares? Simple question, simple answer and you're on your way.

    Why stop at all? If you think it's unconstitutional, then why not just blow through the checkpoint and keep on going? Why stop and waste their time and yours? Why?, because you would have committed a crime to do just that. No different than a trucker blowing by a weigh station. He's gonna find himself in hot water if he does.

    After 9/11 people were being stopped before crossing the Hoover Dam. Why?, so nobody would blow up the dam. So your saying this is an unconstitutional stop? Personally, I'm glad somebody is there to do that.

    I think these guys were trying to push all the buttons they could to get a reaction that they could file some sort of charges against. People walk up and down the streets everyday looking for somebody to sue. Personally, I think it's childish. IMHO.

    ETA: Rather than give these State Officials a bad time and attitudes, they should have said; "Yes sir, I am an American citizen and proud of it". Now thats constitutional.
    "Government is not the solution to our problem; government IS the problem". - Ronald Reagan 1981

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