February 28th, 2013 09:05 PM
Seeking LEO input
I think of an LEO as an expert on tasers and pepper spray as it is part of their occupational edc. So a friend of mine bought and carries them from time to time. we were debating over the use of them, and I just can't see the point of someone who is not an LEO carrying these as an edc item. Now granted I don't know to much about them I could only speculate based on observation. So as you can see I live in NH and the winter clothing I assume would not be penetrated by a taser. Also how does the wind effect a taser? I'm not sure on the range of a taser but I feel the wind would have a big impact on them. I used the same wind argument about the pepper spray, I just don't see these two items useful unless used during absolute ideal weather conditions, which cancels out at least half of our year and makes the two items kind of a waste of money to a civilian as edc items.
Am I correct in thinking this? What do those of you who are LEOs have to ay about these two items being used as edc by civilians?
February 28th, 2013 09:16 PM
OC spray is useless against a dedicated attacker. I work a very busy district, and i've still got my can from about 2 years ago. Also, it always seems to get in my face, and it certainly drives me insane.
Tasers are great IF they work. I have discharged my Taser maybe 15 or so times. It's actually worked I would say 30% of the time. I've had one barb just sit there in the cartridge, not make contact, miss completely (hey...its tough to aim when you are in a full sprint) and just not go off. It's a large blocky piece of equipment that just takes up too much room for what its worth. Any time I draw my taser I always have a plan B in place. I expect it to fail. When it works, it works really well, but when it doesnt, get ready for a fight.
If I were up against an attacker, and had the choice of OC, Taser, or a nice tactical pen, I would take the pen. Too many ways for OC or Tasers to be ineffective.
February 28th, 2013 09:22 PM
Tasers aren't really allowed here for LEO, so I can't weigh in on them. OC works well WHEN it works, but I wouldn't depend on it. Always have a plan b or c,
You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, "I have lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along." . . . You must do the thing you think you cannot do. Eleanor Roosevelt
February 28th, 2013 09:24 PM
it seems the pen is mightier than the taser and oc spray.
Originally Posted by kb2wji
This just came to mind, lets say you shoot at someone with a winter jacket on with the taser. Is there at all a chance of the charge catching the cotton stuffing on fire?
February 28th, 2013 09:45 PM
February 28th, 2013 10:14 PM
I'm a former LEO with the Coast Guard. We used Curb 60 and I only used it once.
The drunk went nuts and I had to use my MAGLITE to knock him down.
We did not have tasers. Even handcuffing the drunk I got Curb 60 on me.
Once we got him in the cabin of our boat, we were all full of snot and tears.
Wind is always a factor. I keep a can of "Bear Spray" in my truck. It has a 30 ft range and I'm some what
protected in my truck. It's legal in all 50 states. If pulled over and asked about it there are mean dogs lose around your home.
I would not use it outside of the truck. Thinking road rage type of issue..
Advanced Products 8.1-oz Bear Deterrent | Overstock.com
I also keep a large flashlite (LEO type) between my seats. My Glock is always on my hip at 3:00
As for the Self Defense Tactical Pen Impact Weapon, you'll still be charged with deadly force if you had no right to use deadly force. Might as well shoot him or use a knife.
My thought on tasers---use a hand held not a projectile type for non-lethal force. If heavy clothing is a problem think neck or face contact.
There's my 2 cents
March 1st, 2013 12:24 AM
I dont understand the issue with Tasers. We have the X26, and while I have only had to fire one two times, I have never seen one fail to work and do its intended job.
Yeah, it wont work with one barb sticking. Generally you can reload quick enough that its not an issue. I havent seen anyone yet or even heard of anyone not getting incapacitated by one so far.
Pepper spray...not so much. If it gets used, it seems that I always get some in my face.Just putting someone that has been sprayed in the back of a car is usually enough to irrate the heck out of the driver.
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March 1st, 2013 12:57 AM
I've deployed my taser 9 times and 8 of 'em fell like a sack of rocks
the one that didn't was because he had 2 shirts on, the outside one being a button up which was unbuttoned, top probe hit back of right tricep (we were running so give me a break) and the bottom hit in the loose flapping shirt (don't want to leave y'all hanging....chase continued, fought on ground, I was on top of him drive stunning him in back, locked up right arm and back but left hand came out from under him with a gun, he tossed it as I jumped up and drew pistol and came up to shoot him)
I've never seen a taser misfire, but I've heard about it
I've never seen a taser not work effectively when probes have made contact with proper spread
My wife carries a keychain OC and carries her C2 taser on her to work since she can't take her Glock 26 inside the college where she teaches
so, IMO these items do have a place for non-LEO, but just as with any SD weapon you need to know when and how to use it
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March 1st, 2013 12:58 AM
Really the face? Wouldn't you be in some deep water if you got the person in the eye? I would think that could blind someone. The videos I've seen on youtube don't show them to be particularly accurate. I suppose if you have the experience though you can put it where you want it.
Originally Posted by Moby
March 1st, 2013 01:11 AM
"That's right your honor, the assailant tried to knock the taser out of my hand with his face repeatedly."
Originally Posted by 031131
North Carolina Concealed Handgun Permit Instructor
NRA Personal Protection and Basic Pistol Instructor
March 1st, 2013 01:12 AM
Im pretty sure hes referring to using the stun gun type that doenst fire barbs just has the contacts vs the Tazer that does fire barbs.
Originally Posted by 031131
" It is sad governments are chief'ed by the double tongues." quote Ten Bears Movie Outlaw Josie Wales
March 1st, 2013 02:56 AM
For what it's worth, the Sabre Red keychain units utilize what they call a "ballistic spray" which comes out as a stream and shoots up to 15 feet. The times that I've practice sprayed my devices, they did quite well in moderately windy conditions.
I'm not a LEO, but carry mine everywhere as an additional tool in my defensive toolbox.
"Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)
March 1st, 2013 02:54 PM
Oh so like a stun gun?
Originally Posted by Ghost1958
March 1st, 2013 03:26 PM
Tasers, OC and batons basically fit as part of a "Use of Force Continuum" in the LEO world. We are required to use only the force necessary in order to subdue a subject and get them to comply. Deadly force can, of course, be met with immediate deployment of deadly force (ie a firearm). Our Department policy requires compliance with this Use of Force policy, so less lethal options are a necessity. I'm not a fan of OC; the spray is sometimes unpredicible and there is always the risk that you will suffer the same effects intended for your assailant. The baton is a useful tool in the hands of someone proprly trained, but it can also be considered "deadly force" if applied to the incorrect areas of the body. In my experience, the Taser is an effective tool and is useful in subduing individuals who are enraged or under the influence of drugs or alcohol, but is is costly (LE units are around $1100). That said, the true X26 model Taser is for sale only to LE agencies and it does differ from the civilian models (which I have never used).
The civilian world is a bit different. In our state, a citizen may use deadly force when it is deemed a "reasonable person" would be in fear for his or her life. Civilians generally are using a weapon as a defensive tool, where in the LE world weapons can be used offensively or defensively depending on the situation---the two environments are not exactly interchangeable. Laws vary from state to state; OC and Tasers are not even legal for civilian use in some areas.
It's really best to check your local laws and utilize the most effective weapon you feel most comfortable with. Not good to carry a gun if you are not comfortable with the fact that you may kill someone. Freezing up at the critical moment will make your bad situation worse. Not sure if this helped, but that's my take on these.
"Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6"
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Law Enforcement Tactical Surgeon
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March 1st, 2013 03:42 PM
Having asthma, I keep as far away from pepper spray as possible.
I don't think much of taser-type tools when there may be more than one attacker.
Give me a standard capacity magazine full o' Gold Dots any day.
The Second Amendment *IS* Homeland Security
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