Article: "A Toll Paid in Blood: Warrant Service Gone Bad"

This is a discussion on Article: "A Toll Paid in Blood: Warrant Service Gone Bad" within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I think this is a debrief of the Ogden Utah drug task force shootout in which Officer Jared Francom was killed. http://www.policeone.com/police-trai...vice-gone-bad/ What a scary ...

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Thread: Article: "A Toll Paid in Blood: Warrant Service Gone Bad"

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    Member Array redsaber75's Avatar
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    Article: "A Toll Paid in Blood: Warrant Service Gone Bad"

    I think this is a debrief of the Ogden Utah drug task force shootout in which Officer Jared Francom was killed.

    http://www.policeone.com/police-trai...vice-gone-bad/

    What a scary level of unpreparedness.

    • Good fortune can reinforce bad tactics.
    • RELOADS, RELOADS, RELOADS!
    • Pre-mission planning is critical. Even on the CCW side of things, map out every scenario (ATM, Parking lot, etc).

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    I tried the link and the article didn't come up for me.
    "Freedom and discipline have come to be regarded as mutually exclusive, when in fact freedom is not at all the opposite, but the final reward of discipline" - Elisabeth Elliot

    "While they are saying, “Peace and safety!” then destruction will come upon them suddenly" 1Thess 5:3

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    Senior Member Array Tzadik's Avatar
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    no article here either

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    This statement is what upsets me.

    “They ought to fire people for this,” he said, his voice quivering with rage. “Instead, they stand them up and give awards.”

    They will protect their own even when they know they are wrong.

    Covering themselves always seems to take precedence over fixing something that is broken.
    NONAME762 and Jetfuelrm like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OkSlim View Post
    This statement is what upsets me.

    “They ought to fire people for this,” he said, his voice quivering with rage. “Instead, they stand them up and give awards.”

    They will protect their own even when they know they are wrong.

    Covering themselves always seems to take precedence over fixing something that is broken.
    Admittedly I didnt bother to read the article, but typically when things go bad, those who get the awards are the ones who dealt with the excrement sandwich, not the ones who planned poorly.
    Bark'n and shadowwalker like this.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Quite simply, complacency kills. If you work in a steel mill, on a flight deck, serve warrants or do any type of dangerous work complacency is the #1 killer. These officers were lax in their prep work and it came back to bite them.
    Secret Spuk likes this.
    Mark Twain:
    The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a
    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

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    Just to add on to what SIXTO said, also often times, the ones who did the poor planning are allowed to quietly retire. Is it right to do that? I don't know. I'm not going to judge those types of actions. As tragic as those things are, the people who screwed up had no malice in their heart. They just didn't know any better in a lot of cases. Or they misjudged things allowing things to compound the problem. While the lapses made in this case certainly boggles the mind, I think it's safe to say there was no malice or deliberate intent to do a poor job.

    But with these kinds of occupations (law enforcment, firefighting, EMS and others), the consequences for a lack in judgement, a lack in preparation, training or whatever, are high. One little thing doesn't go as planned and a whole cascade of catastrophic failures can easily ensue. In public safety occupations, the margin for error is small. There's a potential for loss of life with almost every decision made in such circumstances.
    Secret Spuk likes this.
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    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I really hate when LEO's are WIA/KIA doing their jobs,Sometimes it's a tragedy that the LEO's were ambushed or something else,but Piss Poor planning/Arrogance/Negligence/Complacency has been killing LEO's for decades and no matter how many AAR's and Classes on Officer Survival Etc. they never run out of new material. The Dirt Bag needs to be executed
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

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    Member Array locotest's Avatar
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    Yep, bad planning, how about the times they break into the wrong house in the middle of the night and abuse and badly frighten the innocent residents and if you draw a gun they shoot you

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    Quote Originally Posted by locotest View Post
    Yep, bad planning, how about the times they break into the wrong house in the middle of the night and abuse and badly frighten the innocent residents and if you draw a gun they shoot you
    Yeah, that happens... Save your comments for postings about such incidents.

    After reading the repost of the article... I wonder how many of us civilians who carry, actually DO try to think like a criminal... Where would he ambush me from?

    In the scenario section of this forum, there is a fellow that works laying/splicing fiber optic cable... He has at least 5 trucks. He has taught his men to "scope out" the neighborhood prior to setting up to do work alone... If the "hood" looks too "dicey" he has told his men to call in backup... And they bring in all the trucks to do the job.

    He, at least, is armed... Others that work for him may also be.

    It's a shame these men were so ill prepared for what they thought was just another hippie pot head... And it cost them dearly.

    Yeah, I got tapatalk, too. So what?
    redsaber75 and Secret Spuk like this.
    It could be worse.
    "The History of our Revolution will be one continued Lye from one end to the other."
    John Adams
    "A gun is kind of like a parachute. If you need one and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again".

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    Member Array redsaber75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    Yeah, that happens... Save your comments for postings about such incidents.

    After reading the repost of the article... I wonder how many of us civilians who carry, actually DO try to think like a criminal... Where would he ambush me from?

    In the scenario section of this forum, there is a fellow that works laying/splicing fiber optic cable... He has at least 5 trucks. He has taught his men to "scope out" the neighborhood prior to setting up to do work alone... If the "hood" looks too "dicey" he has told his men to call in backup... And they bring in all the trucks to do the job.

    He, at least, is armed... Others that work for him may also be.

    It's a shame these men were so ill prepared for what they thought was just another hippie pot head... And it cost them dearly.

    Yeah, I got tapatalk, too. So what?
    "Pre-mission intelligence" applies to everyone.

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    Senior Member Array theskunk's Avatar
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    With today's electronics a house can be a fortress. Just some cheap GSM motion detecting cameras will trigger an email, with a picture, to a cellphone. Simple booby traps can be armed, and triggered remotely. The advent of the cell phone has changed home security.

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    Member Array redsaber75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theskunk View Post
    With today's electronics a house can be a fortress. Just some cheap GSM motion detecting cameras will trigger an email, with a picture, to a cellphone. Simple booby traps can be armed, and triggered remotely. The advent of the cell phone has changed home security.
    Very true. You can outfit a house for under $500 easily.

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