Even when off duty LEOs Intervene things can go south

This is a discussion on Even when off duty LEOs Intervene things can go south within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Foxnews: ANNAPOLIS, Maryland — An off-duty Secret Service agent was shot after intervening in a fight in a shopping mall food court, and he returned ...

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Thread: Even when off duty LEOs Intervene things can go south

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array Dakotaranger's Avatar
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    Even when off duty LEOs Intervene things can go south

    Foxnews:
    ANNAPOLIS, Maryland — An off-duty Secret Service agent was shot after intervening in a fight in a shopping mall food court, and he returned fire, wounding the shooter, police said.

    A third person was also shot in the melee Saturday evening, and all were hospitalized in stable condition, said Officer Sara Schriver, an Anne Arundel County police spokeswoman.

    The agent was at the Westfield Annapolis mall with his family shortly after 7 p.m. when he saw a group of men attacking another man, Schriver said.

    "They all just started attacking one individual ... physically assaulting him, punching him," she said.

    The agent tried to break up the fight, and someone in the group drew a gun and started firing, she said. After the agent was shot, he drew his handgun and returned fire, wounding the shooter, police said. A third person was shot during the gunfight, but it was not clear who shot that person, Schriver said.

    The agent and the shooter were flown to the University of Maryland Shock Trauma Center in Baltimore. The third victim was driven to a local hospital. Their identities were not released.

    So where did he go wrong? Did he misreact? What else could he have done?
    "[T]he people are not to be disarmed of their weapons.
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    VIP Member Array ELCruisr's Avatar
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    From some reports I saw this may have been gang related. He was also off duty Secret Service. Their training and daily work environment is different than a street cops for sure. Me, intervening in an unknown situation is highly chancy. Who is the good guy, IS there a good guy, will this threaten my wife if I intervene as well as myself. Lots of ifs.......
    If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. ~ Thomas J. Watson, Jr.

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    Member Array thirtyonebravo's Avatar
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    Well I wouldn't say he misreacted or anything. He just tried to break up a fight, one of them pulled out a weapon and shot at him, and he returned fire and shut it down.

    He was shot, so granted maybe he wasn't in the right color condition, or it was just one of those unavoidable things in reaction time and proximity and whatnot. We could only speculate with what info we have, not being there in person.
    "I've got a shotgun, a rifle, and a four-wheel drive.. a country boy can survive..." - Hank Williams, Jr.

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    Hope the agent recovers quick.
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    The lesson for CHL/CCW types is clear. Breaking up a cock fight is dangerous business. They might well be armed themselves, particularly in a group/gang bang like that. Intervening might well be righteous, but it can have dire consequences. Particularly if there with one's family in tow. Keep your wits, all.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
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    This Country Is Going South Fast...

    May the agent recover quickly...
    May the dirtbag he shot...(insert your own opinion here)...

    Stay alert...stay safe!

    ret
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    May the agent recover quickly...
    May the dirtbag he shot...(insert your own opinion here)...
    Be charged with illegal carry..... Since I'll bet he didn't have a Maryland permit, after all, no "normal" person does!

    Seriously, this kid should be facing multiple charges. I just hope the system works, and there is NO time off for "good behavior".
    Rick

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    It’s impossible and in poor taste to second guess the agents actions with the given information. I am sure he acted appropriately; sometimes things go bad no matter what you do.

    Having lived in the Annapolis area, I am very familiar with that mall. It was infested with wanna be gang types, I guess they graduated since I was there.
    I can only hope for the speedy recovery of the agent.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Gotta aregee with Sixto. No telling how it went down.
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    Just wondering...

    So are Secret Service agents considered LEOs?
    Do they need a CCW permit off duty in Maryland?
    Was he Protective Detail or Uniformed Detail?
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    Just wondering...

    So are Secret Service agents considered LEOs?
    Yes

    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    Do they need a CCW permit off duty in Maryland?
    No. We had a member of the FD who was hired by the Secret Service. He was authorized to carry 24/7.

    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    Was he Protective Detail or Uniformed Detail?
    He could have been in forgery / counterfeiting for that matter.

    Matt
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    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

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    As i read it , the lesson for us here is that the fight isn't over untill one is down. Shot in the leg he put two COM putting the bg down. You may well be hurt , but fight throu whateaver happens untill the bg is down for the count .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dakotaranger View Post
    So where did he go wrong? Did he misreact? What else could he have done?
    There are not a lot of details (news as usual). When these BGs were causing mayhem did they bump into him, hurt his family, etc? Could he not retreat? Not too many details and not enough details for me to understand the situation. I think Sixto summed it up great with his response.

    If they didn't bother him, then he went wrong by getting involved. Call the police. Let them handle the situation. If they are too busy to handle it, then so be it and walk away. Better to have a thug kill another thug then have the thug shoot your child, or in this case, YOU!

    I know if I were in that situation, I would have not gotten involved. Especially if my family were around and I had no known backup. Maybe if the ultra-dangerous/tactical/stealth mall security was around, they could have thrown their walkie-talkies at the BGs.

    He probably didn't think someone would pull a gun and start shooting but now people can learn from his mistake. Don't get involved and you won't get shot. He is lucky a bullet didn't hit his family, but it sounds like a bystander got shot.

    Oh well, two people nearly got killed, a third person was shot, and mass hysteria ensued, you can chalk it up to kids will be kids.

    Thank God he is okay and I pray that he recovers quickly. Thank God his family is okay too!
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    Senior Member Array Weeg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    It’s impossible and in poor taste to second guess the agents actions with the given information.


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    Quote Originally Posted by walther1 View Post
    If they didn't bother him, then he went wrong by getting involved. Call the police. Let them handle the situation. If they are too busy to handle it, then so be it and walk away. Better to have a thug kill another thug then have the thug shoot your child, or in this case, YOU!

    I know if I were in that situation, I would have not gotten involved.
    He is a law enforcement officer. He has taken an oath, as do all law enforcement officers, and that oath does not specify the hours that it is in effect. So, he DID NOT go wrong by getting involved.

    As far as having a thug kill another thug, that may be the case. Or it could have been that the individual being attacked was an innocent bystander.

    As a non-LEO, you are under NO obligation, duty, or oath to get involved in anything you choose not to. As a LEO, however, the Agent WAS under an oath to get involved.

    Quote Originally Posted by walther1 View Post
    Don't get involved and you won't get shot. He is lucky a bullet didn't hit his family, but it sounds like a bystander got shot.
    The third person, from what I can tell from the article, was another victim of the dirtbag who shot the agent.

    I am not for armchair quarterbacking, since we have limited details, and we were not there. I think the agent acted bravely by intervening to prevent what he saw as a potentially serious threat to an individual. As a result, he was injured, and possibly saved someone else's life.

    Charlie
    When you are truly transformed into a warrior and have truly invested yourself into warriorhood, you want to be there. You want to be able to make a difference.
    From the essay "TRIBES" by Bill Whittle

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