The hits just keep rolling in, Boundless Informant, the latest NSA tool to be outed

The hits just keep rolling in, Boundless Informant, the latest NSA tool to be outed

This is a discussion on The hits just keep rolling in, Boundless Informant, the latest NSA tool to be outed within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; The British paper the Guardian has just published a story on the NSA's "Boundless Informant" program. Boundless Informant: the NSA's secret tool to track global ...

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Thread: The hits just keep rolling in, Boundless Informant, the latest NSA tool to be outed

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array bklynboy's Avatar
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    The hits just keep rolling in, Boundless Informant, the latest NSA tool to be outed

    The British paper the Guardian has just published a story on the NSA's "Boundless Informant" program. Boundless Informant: the NSA's secret tool to track global surveillance data | World news | guardian.co.uk. This system quantifies the number of intercepts by region down to the IP address and presents them in a map interface.

    Even more interesting, it looks like DNI Clapper and NSA Director, General Alexander, lied through their teeth when they told congress they had no way of knowing how many American had their data swept up by Prism and the phone records collection program. Hell they could have drilled down to the Congressmen's districts and given them hard numbers. Both of them should be held in Contempt of Congress and then prosecuted and jailed. The chance of that happening is nil unless a real Constitutionalist becomes President.

    Funny story, the other night I was watching with my wife a video of Clapper's testimony where he was answering the question from the Committee about not knowing and not having the technology to find out how many innocent American's records were being swept up into the NSA data warehouse. Looking at his body language and watching the way he covered his mouth when he answered, I told my wife that he was obviously lying. You'd think that given the mission of the DNI to lie to Congress, someone in the intell community would have taught him how to do it effectively.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bklynboy View Post
    The British paper the Guardian has just published a story on the NSA's "Boundless Informant" program. Boundless Informant: the NSA's secret tool to track global surveillance data | World news | guardian.co.uk. This system quantifies the number of intercepts by region down to the IP address and presents them in a map interface.

    Even more interesting, it looks like DNI Clapper and NSA Director, General Alexander, lied through their teeth when they told congress they had no way of knowing how many American had their data swept up by Prism and the phone records collection program. Hell they could have drilled down to the Congressmen's districts and given them hard numbers. Both of them should be held in Contempt of Congress and then prosecuted and jailed. The chance of that happening is nil unless a real Constitutionalist becomes President.

    Funny story, the other night I was watching with my wife a video of Clapper's testimony where he was answering the question from the Committee about not knowing and not having the technology to find out how many innocent American's records were being swept up into the NSA data warehouse. Looking at his body language and watching the way he covered his mouth when he answered, I told my wife that he was obviously lying. You'd think that given the mission of the DNI to lie to Congress, someone in the intell community would have taught him how to do it effectively.
    That is probably a literally true statement that they had no way of knowing how many. Nowadays
    between folks having multiple lines, having land and cell systems, using various VOI systems, using several
    web based e-mail accounts plus Facebook and similar, they
    could at best take a guess that the number of communications and communications devices scooped up is some
    multiple of the population minus children under 10 maybe.

    I'm not troubled at all by what was done. I am troubled by the track record of the FISA court which apparently
    almost never rejects a request for a warrant. This is troubling in two opposite ways. 1) there might really be
    that many folks who the authorities have gathered probable cause for the warrant on; 2) the FISA court might
    actually be just a rubber stamp. We ordinary mortals have no way of knowing if either is the case or if something in-between
    is the case.

    Meanwhile, back in the land of reality, none of my friends have disappeared. None of my relatives have
    disappeared. No one has raided my house, served me papers, and learned anything about me
    that I wouldn't gladly tell them if they simply asked.

    Don't misunderstand. We have a problem. Congress needs to fix it, as they caused it-- even if it was a different
    bunch of people then serving.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

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    Senior Member Array bklynboy's Avatar
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    I agree, we need Intel collection, but both the Patriot Act reauthorization and the FISA act reauthorization were far too broad. Beyond that, as you say neither the FISA judges or Congress appear to be anything other than rubber stamps. Not only that, but it seems clear that the NSA Intel collection and analysis functions now support a wide range of domestic Homeland Security missions that go far beyond fighting the terrorists who brought about 9/11. NSA collected Intel goes to the FBI and Joint Terrorism Task Forces and down to local police and private security forces at major financial institutions to combat perceived threats to the status quo from both the left and right side of the political spectrum from groups like Occupy Wall Street to Tea Party like efforts. Dissent or Terror: New Report Details How Counter Terrorism Apparatus Was Used to Monitor Occupy Movement Nationwide | PR Watch

    I get that there are people who want to kill us and we need to fight them, and I run a data mining business, so I certainly understand the need to be able to sift data and identify targets and patterns, but one can do that without collecting all the electronic communications of the American population and keeping them forever. When all is said and done it all comes down to whether we want to sacrifice our Fourth Amendment freedoms for what we perceive is an increase in security. It is no different than the Anti 2A crowd telling us we need to give up the guns for the sake of our safety.

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    Senior Member Array foxytwo's Avatar
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    Give a little for security and lose a lot of liberty.
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    Member Array mallardhunter's Avatar
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    The problem here is when they change the rules as to what they think poses a threat. What you are doing today that is lawful may become illegal tomorrow( in the governments eyes. )

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    Senior Member Array cn262's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    That is probably a literally true statement that they had no way of knowing how many. Nowadays
    between folks having multiple lines, having land and cell systems, using various VOI systems, using several web based e-mail accounts plus Facebook and similar, they could at best take a guess that the number of communications and communications devices scooped up is some multiple of the population minus children under 10 maybe.
    I disagree. It's pretty easy to take literally billions of rows of data from various sources, run very complex queries, and get answers back in minutes. Just think about it - employment data, credit data, credit card data, ISP data (including but IP addresses), email, text messages, phone call data, forum posts - almost anything and everything you do, could be easily correlated to look for trends and anomalies. Businesses do a pretty good job today without all of the access that the Government has (just think about all that Google "knows" about you), so I personally believe that any type of personality, behavior, or activity could be identified and singled-out fairly easily if desired. The harder part is the actual follow-up on every lead identified.

    Right or wrong, using this data with sophisticated big data and analytic tools for good does have a lot of potential. But, anything that powerful has the power to corrupt. So, you need to be able to trust the people and procedures in charge. And unfortunately that is becoming harder and harder to do.
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    VIP Member Array Patti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mallardhunter View Post
    The problem here is when they change the rules as to what they think poses a threat. What you are doing today that is lawful may become illegal tomorrow( in the governments eyes. )
    Yes, we learned that from the IRS corruption/scandal.

    Someone needs to go to jail.

    This is no longer the country of our fathers and grandfathers.

    It's becoming more and more to resemble the Chi-Coms.
    Ghost1958 likes this.
    Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy. Winston Churchill

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    Member Array Bassindude's Avatar
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    Technically if he used the phrase "innocent Americans" he wasnt lying, but we all know it was just semantics. Jim
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    Just a small infringement on your rights..whats the big deal....

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