CA LEOs shoot boy with authentic-looking AK-47 "pellet gun."

This is a discussion on CA LEOs shoot boy with authentic-looking AK-47 "pellet gun." within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Long story short, LEOs encounter 13-year-old boy with real-looking AK and order him to drop it. Then shooting erupts and boy is dead. Photo definitely ...

Page 1 of 14 1234511 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 198
Like Tree245Likes

Thread: CA LEOs shoot boy with authentic-looking AK-47 "pellet gun."

  1. #1
    VIP Member
    Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    S. Florida, north of the Miami mess, south of the Mouse trap
    Posts
    14,576

    CA LEOs shoot boy with authentic-looking AK-47 "pellet gun."

    Long story short, LEOs encounter 13-year-old boy with real-looking AK and order him to drop it. Then shooting erupts and boy is dead. Photo definitely looks real--no orange tip. Real or not, LEOs don't take chances. Shooting still under investigation.

    Calif. sheriff's deputies shoot, kill 13-year-old - seattlepi.com
    Last edited by OldVet; October 23rd, 2013 at 10:46 PM.
    gatorbait51 likes this.
    Retired USAF E-8. Avatar is OldVet from days long gone. Oh, to be young again.
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    Member Array JDavisArk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Flippin, AR
    Posts
    357
    Kids need to learn better. LEO don't take chances and so it is. Tragedy is an every day thing now. Who's to blame? Online gaming? This is real life and stupidity is unacceptable no matter who you are.

  4. #3
    Member Array OldandInTheWay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Social Circle, GA
    Posts
    192
    it astounds me that someone, 13 or not, can put themselves in that peril to begin with, then refuse to comply with police demands. what choice are LEO left with? as recent events make clear, a 12 or 13 year old with a weapon certainly IS capable of being a "maniac" and a deadly threat to the public. What on earth is going on in people's brains these days?
    "In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king."

  5. #4
    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    NOVA...200 square miles surrounded by reality
    Posts
    2,918
    This is a terrible---

    I know we haven't heard the whole story, and I wasn't there; however things like this make me think of how many Law Enforcement Officers think there are two classes of people. Cops and everybody else! If this was 40 years ago, the cops would have probably got out of the car, called the kid by his first name and told him to go play soldier somewhere else. I saw a picture of the Nevada shooting and saw the SWAT team dressed up, and at first thought I was looking at a picture of Afghanistan. My have times changed. I fear greatly what is coming down the road. The days of community policing seem to be far gone, the US vs. them mentality seems to be coming more prevalent. I apologize and didn't mean to change topics.
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

    Its not about guns...Its about Freedom!

  6. #5
    VIP Member
    Array msgt/ret's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    6,768
    "I'm sure you can tell he's a 13-year-old boy," Abrey Martin told KGO-TV. "He's not some maniac."
    Well the shooter in Sparks was 12; I just feel sympathy for the Officers having to live with the fact of taking someone’s life. And looking at the picture I did not see an orange tip either so how could they know it was not real?
    When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
    "Don't forget, incoming fire has the right of way."

  7. #6
    VIP Member Array mprp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    California
    Posts
    2,811
    This is a tough one and I certainly wouldn't want to be in the officers' shoes. Sad deal for sure. Although if you think that you're going up against someone with an actual AK with your handgun, it can't be the most comfortable position to be in. I hope the kid actually had the chance to drop the toy by orders from the officers but in any event, not having that orange tip to indicate that it's a toy could most definitely have minimized that chance.
    gatorbait51 likes this.
    Vietnam Vets, WELCOME HOME

    Crossman 760 BB/Pellet, Daisy Red Ryder, Crossman Wrist Rocket, 14 Steak Knives, 3 Fillet Knives, Rolling Pin-14", Various Hunting Knives, 2 Baseball Bats, 3 Big Dogs and a big American Flag flying in the yard. I have no firearms; Try the next house.

  8. #7
    Senior Member
    Array Str8upguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    1,033
    very sad story
    gatorbait51 likes this.
    Don't let the facts cloud your judgement.
    Guns don't make decisions, people do.
    Who you are speaks so loudly I can't hear what you're saying...Ralph Waldon Emerson
    NRA Member

  9. #8
    VIP Member Array tdave's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    2,265
    Since all the toy guns I see these days have those tips. I have to wonder if someone removed the tip from the toy to make it look cool?
    gatorbait51 likes this.

  10. #9
    Senior Member Array Hodad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Roswell, GA
    Posts
    1,199
    Sorry I have to believe that the officers acted a little to drastically in this case. IMO their first act of force (discharging their weapons with intent to kill) should have been the last option used.

    How about this strategy: seperate enough where he can't mow you down at the same time with one burst, then approach the subject from different directions while continuing to demand that he drop the weapon or you will shoot and if he doesn't and he starts firing (proving it was a real AK47) then you use deadly force.

    LEO's are paid (although not nearly enough) to risk their lives, not defend themselves with deadly force at the first hint of danger.
    "Life is tough but it's really tough if you are stupid"

  11. #10
    Member
    Array thrasherg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Maple Valley, Washington
    Posts
    186
    I have to wonder if there was also a language barrier, it would seem that the kids family was spanish/mexican so it may also have been that the boy did NOT understand what the police were telling him to do. Tragic outcome..

    Gary
    Bassindude and gatorbait51 like this.

  12. #11
    Senior Member Array BadgerJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Mid-Atlantic
    Posts
    1,162
    Quote Originally Posted by Hodad View Post
    Sorry I have to believe that the officers acted a little to drastically in this case. IMO their first act of force (discharging their weapons with intent to kill) should have been the last option used.

    How about this strategy: seperate enough where he can't mow you down at the same time with one burst, then approach the subject from different directions while continuing to demand that he drop the weapon or you will shoot and if he doesn't and he starts firing (proving it was a real AK47) then you use deadly force.

    LEO's are paid (although not nearly enough) to risk their lives, not defend themselves with deadly force at the first hint of danger.
    Gee, you'd almost have to conclude that some modern Kalifornia LEOs are cowards...or at least devoid of patience. At least now we know it takes seven .45 rounds to stop a 13 year old. :(
    gatorbait51 and nechaev like this.

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array Taurahe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Indianapolis IN
    Posts
    2,704
    Quote Originally Posted by Hodad View Post
    Sorry I have to believe that the officers acted a little to drastically in this case. IMO their first act of force (discharging their weapons with intent to kill) should have been the last option used.

    How about this strategy: seperate enough where he can't mow you down at the same time with one burst, then approach the subject from different directions while continuing to demand that he drop the weapon or you will shoot and if he doesn't and he starts firing (proving it was a real AK47) then you use deadly force.

    LEO's are paid (although not nearly enough) to risk their lives, not defend themselves with deadly force at the first hint of danger.
    It is terrible that this happened, but your logic is flawed. When an LEO arrives on scene he must instantly decide what his course of action will be. No threat assessment, no risk / reward calculation, nothing. Then you ask the LEO's to wait until the person starts firing...what if his target is a pregnant woman? A religious clergyman? A child? Now through lack of action, the LEO's are responsible for the possible death of a person? What if it is one LEO on scene, waiting for back up, and he has to take action immediately....... it happens frequently..... so that LEO is supposed to wait until the BG shoots him / her or someone else before they fire their own weapons? really........... that is highly impractical to say the least.

    As far as tactics go, most LEO's are patrol officers. They recieve minimal, if any, tactical training. Thats what swat teams are for. Yes, the divide and conqueor method would be ideal, but may or may not happen. Thats why PD's have swat teams.

    And last but not least, having survived two tours in Iraq, and being an LEO, sometimes, if the last action you want to take is not your first, you die. These cops had no way of knowing the gun was fake, not do they have a responsibility to identify it as such. They are right in assuming the gun is real, and acting on that thought process. Anything less would get them killed. It is sad the gun turned out to be fake and they killed a young kid, but it would not be the first 13 yr old to pull a gun on a cop if it had been real, unfortunately.
    ”God grants Liberty only to those who love it, and are always ready to guard and defend it.”
    ~Daniel Webster

    Your points are shallow... my points are Hollow....

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array Taurahe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Indianapolis IN
    Posts
    2,704
    Quote Originally Posted by thrasherg View Post
    I have to wonder if there was also a language barrier, it would seem that the kids family was spanish/mexican so it may also have been that the boy did NOT understand what the police were telling him to do. Tragic outcome..

    Gary
    Not to start a war... but if that were the case, they speak spanish south of the border. Whatever fashion they arrived here, if they didnt speak english, too bad. As americans, we have no requirement to accomodate the languages of others. If people of foreign origination cant learn english, thats not mine or any other americans problem.

    And no matter where you come from, uniformed police pointing a gun at you is a universal language.... the first reaction should be to get on the ground.....
    ”God grants Liberty only to those who love it, and are always ready to guard and defend it.”
    ~Daniel Webster

    Your points are shallow... my points are Hollow....

  15. #14
    VIP Member Array Badey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Posts
    2,566
    There was a case recently in L.A. where a crew was filming a robbery scene using prop guns. Someone called the cops. The police drew down on an actor, and ordered him to drop his weapon. It took several verbal warnings for him to comply. He was almost shot for not complying.

    My point, if you aren't sure what is going on, it takes you a few seconds to process and react. The kid may not have complied because he didn't have enough time to process what was going on.

    My main question is, was be pointing the "weapon" at anyone when the officers were on scene?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
    "All you need for happiness is a good gun, a good horse, and a good wife." - Daniel Boone

  16. #15
    VIP Member
    Array Echo_Four's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Land of the mostly free
    Posts
    2,625
    Some things I read on this forum make me wonder how people manage to walk through a parking lot without hurting themselves.
    "The only people I like besides my wife and children are Marines."
    - Lt. Col. Oliver North

Page 1 of 14 1234511 ... LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

3 gun with ak 47

,

ak 47 pellet gun

,

does a pellet gun meet the elements for cpc 245

,

who said be pellet be perfetional but have a plan to kill everyone you meet

,

who said be pellet be professional but have a plan to kill everyone you meet

Click on a term to search for related topics.