Warrants and home searches????

This is a discussion on Warrants and home searches???? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I started to post this in another ongoing thread about RAS and Probable Cause but decide to not hijack that one after all. I have ...

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Thread: Warrants and home searches????

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    Warrants and home searches????

    I started to post this in another ongoing thread about RAS and Probable Cause but decide to not hijack that one after all.

    I have had this conversation with my wife and kids more than once.

    Me: "Never let anyone in the house that is not a friend of the family."

    Wife/Kid: "What if the police ask to come in?"

    Me: "What possible reason would the police have to want to enter our home? If they don't have a warrant, they don't come in. If they claim to have a warrant, call me and I'll decide if they come in or not."

    Point being, we as a family do absolutely nothing that could ever possibly be construed as probable cause for a warrant. There is no way that a warrant issued for my address was obtained with factual information. None what so ever. and if there is no warrant there is no entry.

    So the question is this; Can the police(local/fed/whatever) serve a warrant on anyone who answers the door? I.e. could they force my 17yr old daughter to let them in with a warrant if I am not present?

    Aside from just a basic civil rights stand point, my concern is simple. I do nothing illegal but I am motorcycle mechanic, jack leg engineer and own a small manufacturing business so I have a better than average fabrication shop. As an avid hand loader, I cast my boolits and have what some would consider a large store of various smokeless powders, primers and cartridge components, smelting/casting tools and, literally a ton of lead in various stages of the process. Not to mention my modest cache of loaded cartridges in several calibers. All stored safely and compliant with local/federal regs.

    I also meet the ridiculous standards of the DHS to be considered a possible domestic terrorist. I'm an Iraqi veteran and an out spoken conservative. It would not be a stretch to imagine a charge of domestic terrorism being trumped up if a LEO were to search my home. It would be truly baseless but since when has that stopped the authorities from trying to throw their weight around?
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    IANAL, but I think a warrant is to search the premises, not the individual that answers the door. For all I know, there doesn't even have to be anyone there. You may need to put the tin hat in storage though. I've had guns and ammo and reloading components in my house for years, even had the police come in, and I've yet to see the black helicopter hover overhead.
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    Cops get addresses mixed up all the time. By the time they are at your door there is no negotiating. They are reacting to a piece of paper, If they have a warrant, don't put your family in danger by telling them to call you first. The cops don't care and would probably be happier not having the man of the house there. good luck
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    Unless you want your wife cuffed and stuffed, you should probably rethink the call me first stipulation. If they have a warrant, they are coming in.
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    So the question is this; Can the police(local/fed/whatever) serve a warrant on anyone who answers the door? I.e. could they force my 17yr old daughter to let them in with a warrant if I am not present?
    Yep.

    More than likely, everyone will be searched for weapons and placed in a room and watched.

    Point being, we as a family do absolutely nothing that could ever possibly be construed as probable cause for a warrant

    Not to bust your chops or anything but do you realize how many people say this as they are being searched? Lots of them.

    I've heard that before. Son number one was one of the biggest thief's in the county. Proud Daddy didn't believe it, wouldn't believe it, couldn't believe it until about 20 grand in stolen goods were found in the crawl space under the house.
    Another case, seemingly innocent daughter was seen riding in a vehicle in which her two male friends were apprehended for robbing a convenience store.

    I could use more examples, but you get the idea.

    Aside from just a basic civil rights stand point, my concern is simple. I do nothing illegal but I am motorcycle mechanic, jack leg engineer and own a small manufacturing business so I have a better than average fabrication shop. As an avid hand loader, I cast my boolits and have what some would consider a large store of various smokeless powders, primers and cartridge components, smelting/casting tools and, literally a ton of lead in various stages of the process. Not to mention my modest cache of loaded cartridges in several calibers. All stored safely and compliant with local/federal regs.
    "Boolits"? You a member of Cast Boolits.com?

    I also meet the ridiculous standards of the DHS to be considered a possible domestic terrorist.
    You think you meet it, you ought to see mine. Not only do I cast, I have the equipment to build guns. Ammo? I just hope the place never catches fire. If it does, that powder and primers alone will make a large crater.


    "It would be truly baseless(as far as you know) but since when has that stopped the authorities from trying to throw their weight around?"

    Authorities NEVER stop trying to throw their weight around. Some of them do it just because they can.
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    If they have a warrant you don't decide whether they come in or not.
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    If they have a warrant, they ARE coming in, one way or another. If not, you don't have to let them in.


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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmy40 View Post

    So the question is this; Can the police(local/fed/whatever) serve a warrant on anyone who answers the door? I.e. could they force my 17yr old daughter to let them in with a warrant if I am not present?
    Yes, ABSOLUTELY! The search will almost certainly be completed, EVEN IF NO ONE IS HOME! All of the Search Warrants I recall from my 20 year career contained a direction for a copy of the warrant to be left in a "Conspicuous Place" if no one was present. The majority also directed searching of "all person(s) present", at least if the item(s) being sought were human portable. I recall one warrant for the search of a garage for a stolen car without that inclusion.
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    Luvmy40, have you ever seen a warrant? Google it. Nowhere on the form does it state that if nobody is home or they don't want you to come in, just turn around and do it another day. Someone, somewhere indicated probably cause to a Judge in order to have him/her sign off on it. Doesn't matter at that point in time whether it is true or not, they are coming in to search for what is on the warrant.
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    This will not become a Police Bashing/Police State/Amerika/Jackbooted Thug/Thread...so don't sidetrack it and it will stay open.

    Keep it informational.
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    Back around 2000 there was a drug task force,that was making their rounds.There was a couple renting a house near us.They were at work when the task force went to their home with a warrant.They got the landlord to open the door.They went in did their search and left.At first when the man that was renting,came home he thought he had been robbed.Then he found out what happened.

    I thought that someone in the house would have had to be present,but that wasn't the case.The laws maybe different now,obviously i don't know.I do know i heard the search was legal.It must have been,because the man got some prison time for coke.

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    Hotguns,
    Yes, I'm a member at castboolits, just not active. I lurk and learn.

    When I say "decide" I mean see the warrant and check the address. So if there is no one present, a search warrant allows for forcible entry? Would this not be considered a "no knock" warrant.

    I can't imagine any of the local boys in blue believing that anything untoward is going on in my home. I know most of them at least casually and with one exception(who is no longer employed by the dept.) have nothing bad to say or think of any of them. Good guys, every one. But I am rock throwing distance from the one time "Murder capital of the U.S" and their very corrupt sheriff's dept.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasey88 View Post
    The laws maybe different now,obviously i don't know.
    As of my retirement in 2008, the laws on this point had NOT been changed. Should they be, all a suspect would have to do is quietly not answer the door, feigning absence, and quietly begin destroying any evidence he may be holding...
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    A search warrant written for a home is served on the home, not an individual. It doesn't matter who's home or not.
    Also, google extingent circumstance .

    Happy reading.
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    A "No Knock Warrant" is different. It is exactly as it states. No announcement until the door is open, usually with a battering ram. They are used primarily when there is a suspicion that evidence will be destroyed or there is a felon in possession of a firearm in the residence who would be a danger to the officers. They are also used when there is suspicion of a hostage situation.

    In the case you are referring to, they would knock, then when there is no answer, they would then and only then take the door down.
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