Example of Anarchy risks: looting in Argentina, as police strike

This is a discussion on Example of Anarchy risks: looting in Argentina, as police strike within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Interesting situation going on, right now, in Argentina. The police have gone on strike, and many people have risen up to take advantage of the ...

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Thread: Example of Anarchy risks: looting in Argentina, as police strike

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Example of Anarchy risks: looting in Argentina, as police strike

    Interesting situation going on, right now, in Argentina. The police have gone on strike, and many people have risen up to take advantage of the situation via looting.

    Example of what could easily happen anywhere, when the rule of law is withdrawn or fails.

    Something for us each to consider, in our preparations, circumspection.


    Deadly Argentina Looting Spreads As Police Go On Strike -- Dec 10, @ BBC.

    Quote Originally Posted by From the article
    At least five people have been killed as looting spreads through Argentina.

    Hundreds have been injured as people took advantage of a police strike to rob shops and homes.

    Police have refused to go on patrol until their demands for a salary rise are met.

    Their move follows a police walkout in Cordoba province last week which also led to lootings, and which was settled after the governor almost doubled officers' pay.

    Widespread unrest

    Seventeen out of Argentina's 23 provinces have been affected.


    <snip>

    Argentine Police Protests Over Pay Cuts -- Oct 2012, @ BBC. Apparently the situation has been brewing for awhile now, with pay cuts and problems long before the current strike.


    Photos from past week: Looting in Argentina @ Bing/images.
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    VIP Member Array tdave's Avatar
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    Think it can't happen here?

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    Good article, this can happen when we can no longer afford to pay back the debt or borrow more money
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

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    VIP Member Array Aceoky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgrass101 View Post
    Good article, this can happen when we can no longer afford to pay back the debt or barrow more money
    Not to mention the precedent being set that our pensions are "available" when folks lose all they have saved for decades....
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    VIP Member Array StormRhydr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aceoky View Post
    Not to mention the precedent being set that our pensions are "available" when folks lose all they have saved for decades....
    I dont understand your post. To whom are you saying that "our pensions are available" to?
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    Member Array NightOwl76's Avatar
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    Here they'd declare a state of emergency and the national guard would be deployed. In Argentina, the military by law is forbidden from helping out with law enforcement. There are a lot of differences between the two countries which make me seriously doubt we'd reach this kind of low any time in the next generation or so. As for how long this particular situation has been brewing in Argentina, that'd be over a decade--or half a century, depending on which point of view you want to pick. That country's hopeless, and for a long time now anybody who's able to leave (including a significant portion of the country's young, educated professionals) has left.
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    Quote Originally Posted by StormRhydr View Post
    I dont understand your post. To whom are you saying that "our pensions are available" to?
    He is referring to the recent Supreme Court ruling that allowed the city of Detroit to cut its pension obligation to current and retired employees.

    Most state employees receive lower pay for higher benefits especially a defined pension instead of a 401 K. If the benefits go then employees will leave, because the pay alone is not worth it.
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    VIP Member Array tdave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StormRhydr View Post
    I dont understand your post. To whom are you saying that "our pensions are available" to?
    When Nevada came upon it's difficult financial times (which persist) one of the proposed solutions was to use funds from the PERS to fund budget short falls. Another interesting phenomena was politically powerful individuals such as State Senate Democrats receiving early retirement "incentives" that were hundreds of thousands of dollars as a "cost saving measure."

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    VIP Member Array StormRhydr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgrass101 View Post
    He is referring to the recent Supreme Court ruling that allowed the city of Detroit to cut its pension obligation to current and retired employees.

    Most state employees receive lower pay for higher benefits especially a defined pension instead of a 401 K. If the benefits go then employees will leave, because the pay alone is not worth it.

    Thanks, pgrass. Ok, so hes talking about the Govt, or corporations looking at the peoples pensions as their own private piggy bank to tap. Yeah, that aint right.

    It aint right when corporations take bankruptcy just to bust the pensions, or medical insurance obligations to their employees, either. In other words, I didnt like it when "just" corporations did it, and sure dont like it when Govt decides that they can do the same thing.

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    Member Array NightOwl76's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgrass101 View Post
    He is referring to the recent Supreme Court ruling that allowed the city of Detroit to cut its pension obligation to current and retired employees.

    Most state employees receive lower pay for higher benefits especially a defined pension instead of a 401 K. If the benefits go then employees will leave, because the pay alone is not worth it.
    Not arguing with the fact that it's just plain wrong to change a pension obligation after the fact, but I do want to point out one thing: very few people would/will leave, because the gap in pay between the public and private sectors has shrunk enormously in the past few decades. It's sure nice to when the people cutting the checks (the government) are spending money that isn't theirs, so they don't have to worry about things like long term solvency when buying a union's votes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by StormRhydr View Post
    Thanks, pgrass. Ok, so hes talking about the Govt, or corporations looking at the peoples pensions as their own private piggy bank to tap. Yeah, that aint right.

    It aint right when corporations take bankruptcy just to bust the pensions, or medical insurance obligations to their employees, either. In other words, I didnt like it when "just" corporations did it, and sure dont like it when Govt decides that they can do the same thing.
    That's exactly right, most corporations went from defined benefits (pensions) to 401 K's in the 80's as a cost saving measure and then raided the pension funds before declaring bankruptcy. It seems that city and local governments are now wanting to do the same thing
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightOwl76 View Post
    Not arguing with the fact that it's just plain wrong to change a pension obligation after the fact, but I do want to point out one thing: very few people would/will leave, because the gap in pay between the public and private sectors has shrunk enormously in the past few decades. It's sure nice to when the people cutting the checks (the government) is spending money that isn't theirs, so they don't have to worry about things like long term solvency when buying a union's votes.
    That depends on whether it is state or federal. Most states have to have a balanced budget, the feds don't and state and local governments pay less than the fed does, but if you factor in the benefits it equals out. Especially if you consider that a stock market crash can destroy a 401K but a defined benefit plan is fixed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdave View Post
    Think it can't happen here?
    Think it hasn't already happened here?
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    VIP Member Array StormRhydr's Avatar
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    The article mentioned "social media". Remember "flash mobs" here?

    We are in the 5th year of an economic depression here. I just have a feeling that its wearing on people in ways that are apt to be manifested in more "social unrest".

    I would not be surprised at all to see flash mob looting this year at malls, or wherever.
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    It's sad to think that you can cut pay for police and military but you can't cut pay for politicians who do not do their jobs and think they are above the law.

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