Changing Issue Weapons

This is a discussion on Changing Issue Weapons within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; There was a news item last night about at least 3 more departments in Georgia that are switching from .40S&W to 9mm issue weapons because ...

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    VIP Member Array high pockets's Avatar
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    Changing Issue Weapons

    There was a news item last night about at least 3 more departments in Georgia that are switching from .40S&W to 9mm issue weapons because of the inavailibility of .40S&W ammunition.

    I guess this means the general availibility of 9mm will take a further hit, as more departments find it necessary to change issue weapons because they can't get enough ammunition.

    The chief that was interviewed, said he spoke with several manufacturers who told him that while they are expanding capacity as quickly as possible, it will take a year to fill all the departmental backorders they have.
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    VIP Member Array GhostMaker's Avatar
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    Interesting news....I would also think that price would come into play in these decisions as well. With budgets tightening this could be a reccuring theme. If you see any more news on this would you please post updates on this? Being an former LEO I like to keep track of stuff like this. It also gives us a heads-up on the market as it were.
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    Member Array GXPWeasel's Avatar
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    Interesting....
    I can find .40 all day long around here, but still 9mm is really hard to find, and when you do, it's over priced. LEO's still use .40 here, for now.
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    Up here in WI there is a certain County that changes weapons like people change their underwear. They just went from 40 to 45 last year and now got rid of the A4s to get a different brand ( after 2 years) I just can't believe how often they retire or switch weapons, I just wish I could get on the short list to purchase, some of them are hardly used. There is talk of changing brands of hand guns ( I will not mention brands at this time but they are not Glocks)
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    Member Array mlk18's Avatar
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    My agency and most of the agencies around me switched to 9mm about a year and a half ago. Availability was a minor factor; cost, sidearm longevity and modern ammunition negating the difference in effectiveness were major factors. If it's less expensive we are able to buy more ammo with the same number of dollars. If effectiveness is pretty much the same we benefit by gaining additional capacity. Every agency that switched reported less parts-breakage issues with the 9mm than the 40 (having all issued 9mm then switching to 40 then switching back to 9mm). The interesting side effects of the switch was a noticeable improvement in shooting scores and faster split times pretty much across the roster. We also found that the non-shooters who used to just make minimum standards not only got better scores but seemed to enjoy firearms training more.

    As far as availability goes we were able to readily buy ammunition throughout the "great panic of 2013". We were not able to order it through our normal distributors or factory direct, but used places like gun bot and slick guns to order whatever we could get our hands on (within reason) so as not to interrupt our training schedule. We were even able to buy replacement duty ammo. Yes we paid more and got to shoot a little less, but we supplemented our training with SIRT guns and laser firearms training simulators. We're back to being able to purchase ammo through our normal distributors but have retained our additional training methods.
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    Changing calibers to keep up with ammo supply will result in a never-ending game of whack-a-mole. It should keep the market supplied with lots of used service guns, though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by high pockets View Post
    There was a news item last night about at least 3 more departments in Georgia that are switching from .40S&W to 9mm issue weapons because of the inavailibility of .40S&W ammunition.
    Really? If they need .40 all they have to do is walk into ANY place that sells ammo around here and buy whatever variety they want. .40 is the only pistol caliber that has been readily available for the last 2 years.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Changing calibers to keep up with ammo supply will result in a never-ending game of whack-a-mole. It should keep the market supplied with lots of used service guns, though.
    Yep. Cabelas here has about 2 dozen P226's and P229's in .40 that are police trade's likely from just that.
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    Funny thing is that during the past year or so .40 ammo has always been available with a good selection. 9mm ammo OTOH has been much harder to find with usually very little selection. Handgun ammo availability in general is definitely improving in my area. One thing to remember is that the selection of guns, caliber, and ammunition in a law enforcement agency is usually made by a bean counting admin type who has never carried a weapon in harms way. This is especially true with bigger agencies. So caliber choice for an agency may come down to whats the cheapest on the state bid.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5lima30ret View Post
    Funny thing is that during the past year or so .40 ammo has always been available with a good selection. 9mm ammo OTOH has been much harder to find with usually very little selection. Handgun ammo availability in general is definitely improving in my area. One thing to remember is that the selection of guns, caliber, and ammunition in a law enforcement agency is usually made by a bean counting admin type who has never carried a weapon in harms way. This is especially true with bigger agencies. So caliber choice for an agency may come down to whats the cheapest on the state bid.
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    That maybe true for target ammo and re manufactured ammo, but not for police duty ammo. In 2013 we still had a couple 40's in service but could not buy ammo for them. We had contacted a dozen law-enforcement ammo distributors and they were all sold out. We also contacted several manufacturers who said production was focused on 9mm and 5.56mm. Wherever they focus production is where the raw materials go to. With most police departments were not talking about the 500-1000 rounds sitting on the shelf of your local gun shop. We were able to trade with other police departments to get what we needed.

    I have worked for three law-enforcement agencies in my 23 years on the job. Weapon and ammo selection was always done by the head of the firearms training program and never by a bean counter. I had a conversation with some of my peers at the last IALEFI conference and that was true more often than not.

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    I would suggest they request DHS to share some .40 with them
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    Come on now the DHS never bought any ammo, it was just a misdirect so they could throw parties with the Secret Service and use the money for beer, chips and "entertainers".
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    I remember when we went from S&W to Beretta's stayed with 9mm though
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    My last trip to wally world I noticed an ample supply of 9mm and 45acp, but they only had one 50rnd box of 40. I've also noticed that some of the online ammo sites that I checked out, 40cal was getting a little scarce. I went to four different sites and no one had any Winchester Ranger in 40cal.
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