The United States of SWAT?

This is a discussion on The United States of SWAT? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; The United States of SWAT? | National Review Online Mr. Fund raises some interesting points in the article....

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    The United States of SWAT?

    The United States of SWAT? | National Review Online

    Mr. Fund raises some interesting points in the article.
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    Overwhelming force to make sure the slaves remain, slaves..Pretty simple concept through out history.....

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    Regulatory agencies are not law enforcement agencies. If a regulation is broken then administrative law judges and the courts provide a path for remedy. SWAT teams controlled by regulatory agencies like the department of education and the EPA have no legitimate place in our constitutional republic.

    Just my $0.02.
    [T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people. ---Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.

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    Ex Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJK View Post
    Regulatory agencies are not law enforcement agencies. If a regulation is broken then administrative law judges and the courts provide a path for remedy. SWAT teams controlled by regulatory agencies like the department of education and the EPA have no legitimate place in our constitutional republic.

    Just my $0.02.
    I fully agree with you. However, when those agencies kick your door in, and put you down, that is not the time to tell them they have no legitimate place. IMO it is a problem that is getting worse.

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    Yes he does raise troubling points. Those points lead to many troubling questions in my mind.
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    So very scary. But, I guess this is the way our Government is going. If you can't get the people to like you, then lets force them to obey every whim and desire of our power hungry mindset.
    Nehemiah 4:14: “Don’t be afraid of them. Remember the Lord who is great and awesome, and draw your Beretta PX4 and fight for your brothers, your sons and your daughters, your wives and your homes.” highlighted added by LMP

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    There are things that can be done to curb the abuses without taking on the politically impossible job of disbanding SWAT units. The feds should stop shipping military vehicles to local police forces. Federal SWAT teams shouldn’t be used to enforce regulations, but should focus instead on potentially violent criminals. Cameras mounted on the dashboards of police cars have both brought police abuses to light and exonerated officers who were falsely accused of abuse. SWAT-team members could be similarly equipped with helmet cameras.
    The IRS has long had a CID and its' Special Agents carried firearms. The IRS also enforces revenue laws that can and do carry criminal charges rather than civil. Even then, the IRS, or any other Agency, hardly has a need for their own SWAT type functions

    It is a highly disturbing trend.

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    Back when I was a kid, the cops would knock on your door. They'd announce themselves. You could open the door and then talk to them.

    If you were to be arrested, you could chat with them about it. Ask nicely, you could keep the cuffs off and walk with them to the squad car, and sit in back. Fairly dignified, all things considered.

    Today? Door smashed in, ARs in everybody's face. Pets executed. Screaming, pepper spray, tasers, knees on the back of your neck, getting all abraded on the pavement, more screaming, charges of "resisting arrest" even though you comply in full. It's gotten pretty bad.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

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    Just because you can doesn't mean you should. But give the local dog catcher an arsenal and he will find an excuse to use it. Nothing good will come of this trend.
    Never get out of the boat....

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    Quote Originally Posted by MJK View Post
    Regulatory agencies are not law enforcement agencies. If a regulation is broken then administrative law judges and the courts provide a path for remedy. SWAT teams controlled by regulatory agencies like the department of education and the EPA have no legitimate place in our constitutional republic.

    Just my $0.02.
    Except that ALL law enforcement agencies powers come down form the Executive branch just like the regulatory agencies do. So Constitutionally there is nothing different between them.

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    By expanding the capabilities of these regulatory agencies the federal government expands it's boots on the ground army within the US. They increase the number of tories loyal to a regime that has separated itself from the people. As this number grows so does the confidence of those in charge that the ability of the citizen (those people who are not on the government payroll) to resist gets to a manageable point. I am afraid we are close to that point and the future of the country rests on the shoulders of those who hold those positions of enforcement who will make the decision that their loyalty lies with the COTUS and not with the hand that feeds them. I pray that the majority of these people care more for freedom than security.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shockwave View Post
    Back when I was a kid, the cops would knock on your door. They'd announce themselves. You could open the door and then talk to them.

    If you were to be arrested, you could chat with them about it. Ask nicely, you could keep the cuffs off and walk with them to the squad car, and sit in back. Fairly dignified, all things considered.

    Today? Door smashed in, ARs in everybody's face. Pets executed. Screaming, pepper spray, tasers, knees on the back of your neck, getting all abraded on the pavement, more screaming, charges of "resisting arrest" even though you comply in full. It's gotten pretty bad.
    And then they figure out they got the address wrong.
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    I liked how he presented clear facts with no opinion bias.

    Why do gangs work? Not because the scrawny kid sent to collect the payment scares the victim but because he knows if he makes trouble the team is going to make a big problem up to and including killing you. When we send a carrier group to the shores of a third world country we then send a diplomat to discuss problems we perceive. The country will do what the diplomat wants because the carrier group is off shore capable to raining down more munitions than used in all of WWII. That is a figure of effectiveness not total tons.

    The police failed one part of the scenario that the gang and the military knows. Once you have the capability of say SWAT you don't use it unless it is a last resort. You send a single officer to the house to make contact and perform the arrest. The bad guy knows you have the capability etc. Now for those that say officer safety we have known the risks and the gang knows the risk once in a while you lose a skinny kid or a diplomat but that is the price of being in the game and let me assure you each one has chosen the risk and way of life there is no draft.

    No matter how bad you think you are as a SWAT team I could harden a property that would make entry impossible without some serious backup that you will not have at scene. Explosive devices make an entry team look pretty foolish all lined up behind each other at the front door. What if the steps blew up? What if tangle foot was deployed in the dark hallway as you enter? I could go on and on but I would only teach somebody something and that is not my intent. Would the SWAT prevail in the end yes would the price be horrific yes.

    When management starts using all this technology against its own officers it will be to late to resist.

    As I have said many times I will not take up arms against my country and its soldiers so I am off to either the coroner or a internment camp. To all others not wearing the uniform be very sure of your target some are easier than others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by manolito View Post
    I liked how he presented clear facts with no opinion bias.

    Why do gangs work? Not because the scrawny kid sent to collect the payment scares the victim but because he knows if he makes trouble the team is going to make a big problem up to and including killing you. When we send a carrier group to the shores of a third world country we then send a diplomat to discuss problems we perceive. The country will do what the diplomat wants because the carrier group is off shore capable to raining down more munitions than used in all of WWII. That is a figure of effectiveness not total tons.

    The police failed one part of the scenario that the gang and the military knows. Once you have the capability of say SWAT you don't use it unless it is a last resort. You send a single officer to the house to make contact and perform the arrest. The bad guy knows you have the capability etc. Now for those that say officer safety we have known the risks and the gang knows the risk once in a while you lose a skinny kid or a diplomat but that is the price of being in the game and let me assure you each one has chosen the risk and way of life there is no draft.

    No matter how bad you think you are as a SWAT team I could harden a property that would make entry impossible without some serious backup that you will not have at scene. Explosive devices make an entry team look pretty foolish all lined up behind each other at the front door. What if the steps blew up? What if tangle foot was deployed in the dark hallway as you enter? I could go on and on but I would only teach somebody something and that is not my intent. Would the SWAT prevail in the end yes would the price be horrific yes.

    When management starts using all this technology against its own officers it will be to late to resist.

    As I have said many times I will not take up arms against my country and its soldiers so I am off to either the coroner or a internment camp. To all others not wearing the uniform be very sure of your target some are easier than others.
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    I knew there were a lot of units like this out there but some he mentioned were new to me. It's worrying to think the DOE needs a swat team. I'm old school like has been mentioned in previous posts. I don't see the need. Personally I think this attitude by these agencies is part of what has brought on the hostility felt in society. There seems to be no one reigning any of them in and we, the public, pay the price.
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