Not good news.........

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Thread: Not good news.........

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array Chaplain Scott's Avatar
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    VIP Member Array GhostMaker's Avatar
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    Just finished reading that on Fox before I signed onto the forum. This is a terrible shame, as we are not only loosing brother officers, but in many cases creating widows and fatherless children. I truly hope this trend subsides......
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    If overall crime is down then this must mean as with the Vegas Leo's they are more of a target now . Not that has stopped i hope it's not a long term kinda thing .

    It is a shame
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    I have already gone to way too many memorials of good men and women doing there job and heard the sorrow of family members.0
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    This is a shame, my heart goes out to the families and the departments.

    In no way do I wish to take away from the tragedy but I noticed something in the article, check this out:
    According to the Nationwide Law Enforcement Memorial Foundation, 63 officers have died on the job this year compared to 45 at the same time last year -- a 40 percent increase. Twenty-three of those deaths were due to firearm-related incidents, a 53 percent increase from the same time last year.
    Notice how the author used numbers for the impact he wanted and spelled out where he did not. 23 officers were shot not 63 but by using this technique how many of you thought 63 officers had been shot?
    23 is 23 too many but I thought it was an interesting way of writing the article.

    "If someone gets into your house which would you rather have, a handgun or a phone? You can call the police if you want, and they’ll get there; and they’ll take a picture of your dead body."

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    Be wary of stats based on small numbers. Also, "“We’ve had some good years and right now we’re in a bad one,” said Richard Beary, vice president of the International Association of Chiefs of Police." So after 3 years of the numbers going down, there's a one year shift. Not to diminish what happened to the individual officers, but this is not a significant event. Using the writer's math, the number of officers killed with guns only increased by 7. I wonder if they've reached the highs from previous years. Time to move along.

    From Officer Down page:
    2013 105
    2012 125
    2011 179
    2010 177
    2009 140
    2008 158
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    VIP Member Array maxwell97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWOUSCG View Post
    This is a shame, my heart goes out to the families and the departments.

    In no way do I wish to take away from the tragedy but I noticed something in the article, check this out:

    Notice how the author used numbers for the impact he wanted and spelled out where he did not. 23 officers were shot not 63 but by using this technique how many of you thought 63 officers had been shot?
    23 is 23 too many but I thought it was an interesting way of writing the article.
    I noticed the same. If one does the math, that means that at this time last year, 15 officers had been killed in "firearm-related incidents" and 30 were killed in some other way. This year, 23 were killed in firearm-related incidents and 40 were killed in some other way. So the number killed in some other way actually increased more (10 vs 8). But, the way it's written makes it sound like guns are the problem.

    It's sad that such nonsense makes it into a news story that's so serious. The deaths of officers are tragedies that need to be taken seriously, not used to generate meaningless statistics for political reasons.
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    Senior Member Array CWOUSCG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxwell97 View Post
    It's sad that such nonsense makes it into a news story that's so serious. The deaths of officers are tragedies that need to be taken seriously, not used to generate meaningless statistics for political reasons.
    Everyone likes to say that Fox is conservative, and the editorials are. If you look at the articles you will see they come from Reuters and AP, not exactly bastions of conservatism. Do you think the author will have a follow on article that calls for gun control?

    OK, went back and looked up the author. He does work for Fox, he's a Junior Reporter! and not AP or Reuters. Didn't go back and look at other work he's done to see where he may stand on gun control but I'm sure someone else around here will!
    Last edited by CWOUSCG; June 15th, 2014 at 10:16 PM. Reason: Added to original post.
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    "If someone gets into your house which would you rather have, a handgun or a phone? You can call the police if you want, and they’ll get there; and they’ll take a picture of your dead body."

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    Not to diminish any death, the odds of an officer being shot dead while on the job appear to be rather low.

    A few month ago I went through each and every story for each and every officer shooting death over about 7-10 years, I can't remember exactly how far back I examined it. The post is here somewhere.

    The typical annual range of officer shooting deaths goes from a low just above 40 to a high in the 60s. Median is probably about 50.

    Some of the deaths included and which I counted in my prior post were tragedies unrelated to work such as an officer being shot by a spouse,
    an officer walking in on burglars in his home, an officer being mugged while traveling home out of uniform.

    I believe we have something like 1 million LEOs nationwide, and therefore while 50 deaths IS 50 too darn many, the odds heavily favor
    getting through a career without ever being shot dead.

    Considering the number of guns in circulation, and the number of criminals, lunatics, druggies and alcoholics who have lost inhibitions, walking about at any given moment, we are actually doing remarkably well.

    I have no idea if this "good luck" is due to great training, or natural inhibitions by most to not kill an officer. Whatever the reason,
    the numbers seem remarkably fortunate, except for those who end up dead and their families.

    As others have pointed out, a shift of 7 or 8 in one 6 month period does not make a trend.
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    Not to diminish any death, the odds of an officer being shot dead while on the job appear to be rather low
    Unless you happen to be the one that gets shot. Then the "odds" don't really matter all of a sudden.



    I think that its probably a natural progression due to the increase of population. Of course, the fact that "respect" for anything is at an all time low is probably a contributor too.
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    The number has always gone up and down. What many people who downplay police deaths fail to realize is may of those are violent murders, not accidents.
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    Distinguished Member Array David Armstrong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Not to diminish any death, the odds of an officer being shot dead while on the job appear to be rather low.

    A few month ago I went through each and every story for each and every officer shooting death over about 7-10 years, I can't remember exactly how far back I examined it. The post is here somewhere.

    The typical annual range of officer shooting deaths goes from a low just above 40 to a high in the 60s. Median is probably about 50.

    Some of the deaths included and which I counted in my prior post were tragedies unrelated to work such as an officer being shot by a spouse,
    an officer walking in on burglars in his home, an officer being mugged while traveling home out of uniform.

    I believe we have something like 1 million LEOs nationwide, and therefore while 50 deaths IS 50 too darn many, the odds heavily favor
    getting through a career without ever being shot dead.

    Considering the number of guns in circulation, and the number of criminals, lunatics, druggies and alcoholics who have lost inhibitions, walking about at any given moment, we are actually doing remarkably well.

    I have no idea if this "good luck" is due to great training, or natural inhibitions by most to not kill an officer. Whatever the reason,
    the numbers seem remarkably fortunate, except for those who end up dead and their families.

    As others have pointed out, a shift of 7 or 8 in one 6 month period does not make a trend.
    We have gotten a lot better with two things. One, we have significantly reduced that old "tombstone courage" mentality that was drilled into so many of us old-timers. The officer survival movement that beganin the 1970s has paid huge dividends. Second, body armor has proven to be an invaluable resource. We are still having officers shot at a high rate, but it doesn't kill nearly as many as it used to. Life threatening assualts seem to have remained fairly constant for the last 50 years or so....over a career an officer has approximately a 25% chance of being involved in a life-threatening attack. We've just gotten a lot better about responding to and living through those attacks.

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    Distinguished Member Array David Armstrong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 40Bob View Post
    The number has always gone up and down. What many people who downplay police deaths fail to realize is may of those are violent murders, not accidents.
    A good point, and why I always try to make a distinction between "died in the line of duty" and "killed in the line of duty."

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Armstrong View Post
    A good point, and why I always try to make a distinction between "died in the line of duty" and "killed in the line of duty."
    Yes, Bob's description of these episodes as being "violent murders" is entirely correct. The wonder is that we don't as a nation experience a much
    higher rate of these.

    It sounds like David A may have put his finger on something with this: "The officer survival movement that beganin the 1970s has paid huge dividends. "
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    Distinguished Member Array Dan060's Avatar
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    My brother in law said his dept had a meeting recently.They were talking about the Vegas murders. The chief told them they needed to carry off duty.I agree with that,but my brother in law just doesn't carry off duty.I wish he would but that's a personal decision obviously.

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