Question about choke holds?

Question about choke holds?

This is a discussion on Question about choke holds? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Can someone provide me a little education. In the Eric Garner case, from what I can tell from the video. The choke hold was in ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array MH53J's Avatar
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    Question about choke holds?



    Can someone provide me a little education. In the Eric Garner case, from what I can tell from the video. The choke hold was in place for about 20 seconds. If I am wrong please correct me on this.

    My question is. Are choke holds allowed by your department? If so are you trained as to how long it can be applied?

    Thanks for the information.


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array Struckat's Avatar
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    It may not be the length of time that it was applied as much as the force that was used. The coroner's report used the word "crushed" if I heard correctly. I don't think he was choked to death on the spot but he died later. I have heard conflicting reports of the true cause. One report said heart attack.

    It's an unfortunate situation, and the officer appears to have violated the "rules" that they are forced to operate under, but I have little sympathy for the perp.

    At best, LEO have a very difficult job to do. Even if you believe that being arrested for whatever is unjust, it's still best to not resist. Those that do resist can expect to be handled with force.

    In this case the applied force had unintended consiquences.
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    Choke holds are prohibited by all depts across the US AFAIK. Hence no training on how long to hold them. They were outlawed as far back as the 70's in many areas, certainly by the 90's everywhere.
    The mind is the limiting factor

    Quick Kill Rifle and Pistol Instructor

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    AzQkr
    Thank you I had only heard about NYC and LA having banned them. From what I have heard the current NYC police commissioner has bounced back and forth between these cites.
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    Distinguished Member Array SCXDm9's Avatar
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    This is a case that just didn't need to happen. The cops knew this guy, he knew them. A simple come on Eric, really? Right in front of me.... Come man give me some respect and move on down the street! Reselling cigs..... and this happened! REALLY??????
    Last edited by OD*; December 7th, 2014 at 11:59 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCXDm9 View Post
    This is a case that just didn't need to happen. The cops knew this guy, he knew them. A simple come on Eric, really? Right in front of me.... Come man give me some respect and move on down the street! Reselling cigs..... and this happened! REALLY??????
    Yup, the big guy didn't have to resist and make the decision that "it ends today". He didn't realize how right he was did he?
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    Senior Member Array DaGunny's Avatar
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    It's not a matter of time, it's a matter of pressure. The larynx (windpipe) can be crushed from a single strike or applied pressure (choke hold). The victim asphyxiates from either the total or partial collapse of the windpipe. You may be thinking of a sleeper hold where the crook of the elbow is not pressing against the larynx, but the forearm is compressing the carotid artery to restrict blood flow to the brain until they pass out.

    No, I'm not a doctor nor do I play one on TV. Both techniques were taught to us in Marine Corps H2H training in boot camp. We actually got to put a sleeper on our "partner" until they passed out. I thought it was cool, my sleeping partner...not so much.
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    Would a one-armed choke hold be that effective? That video looked more like a sleeper hold as DaGunny mentioned.

    It always amazes me how much could be avoided if people didn't initiate crap by violating laws and would simply comply with LEO commands when they do.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
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    Distinguished Member Array SCXDm9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    Yup, the big guy didn't have to resist and make the decision that "it ends today". He didn't realize how right he was did he?
    nn

    I agree... I'm not saying he didn't contribute to the end result. Just saying, even had he not resisted and went peacefully to lock up. What greater good was served? This just didn't need to happen.
    Things gun forums have taught me:
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    -I don't dislike Glocks but often dislike Glock owners.
    -Open carry is to a handgun as bluetooth is to a cell phone!
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCXDm9 View Post
    nn

    I agree... I'm not saying he didn't contribute to the end result. Just saying, even had he not resisted and went peacefully to lock up. What greater good was served? This just didn't need to happen.
    What needs to happen is for the loosie sellers to stop violating the law buying illegal stolen sigs and then again violating the law by selling their illegal contraband in public at a discount. No different than the guys who try to sell you hot stereo equipment on the street. It's against the law, get caught, you stand a good chance of getting arrested.

    The greater good is the lesson many need to learn and might after this case. Don't flaunt violating the law, even a low level law and not expect to be called on it.
    The mind is the limiting factor

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    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
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    Bet Holder get's em for civil rights violation,,, Any takers ?? PS Par for the course
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  12. #12
    Distinguished Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    There are a couple of different neck holds. The one used in the video has the officer's arm across the front of the throat and compresses the larynx straight back cutting off the air supply. It can result in bruising and swelling which interferes with breathing, and it can fracture the cricoid cartilage which can have the same results. Asthma would exacerbate the situation.

    A second hold involves compressing the carotid arteries and jugular veins on each side of the neck interfering with cranial circulation and causing the person to pass out.

    More information here: Reconsidering Carotid Control - Article - POLICE Magazine

    It's a really bad idea to resist or even appear to be resisting. Once it becomes a struggle or the officer fears loss of control, the chances of injury increase dramatically. This is true for both the suspect and the officers.

    [I see DaGunny beat me to it.]
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    Senior Member Array Struckat's Avatar
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    All careers have their inherent hazzards. Being a criminal, even a petty criminal, is no different.

    And now the Caliph's dog Holder will look for civil rights violations. Oh please.

    They will continue to destroy the legitimacy of local LEO to the point where The Defiler thinks he can "Nationalize the the police force.

    This didn't need to happen like it did.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCXDm9 View Post
    nn

    I agree... I'm not saying he didn't contribute to the end result. Just saying, even had he not resisted and went peacefully to lock up. What greater good was served? This just didn't need to happen.
    I'm willing to say he initiated every bit of the situation. I suppose you would prefer that "petty" crimes go ignored?
    msgt/ret and Richard58 like this.
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    The reporter (we know how reliable they are) said he died of cardiac arrest. Don't know if that was brought on or exasperated by a crushed larynx or not, but either way I'm sure the guy's morbid obesity played a role in it as well. He could very well have had a hard time breathing to start with due to his weight. As far as the choke holds, I learned a long time ago how efficient they are and it seems all agree that the quicker you get someone under control, the better for everyone involved. My cousin was dumbfounded when he hit the floor as his was about 8" taller than me and had me by a good 50#'s. Hitting the guy with a taser may well also have resulted in cardiac arrest.

    Telling an officer not to put their hands on you when you know you are about to be arrested is just dumb. Thinking he was killed for selling cigarettes is willfully ignoring reality. He died as a result of being restrained while resisting arrest - when the officer is trying to take down a guy 2x his size there are precious few options, not sure if any kinda of elbow/shoulder control lock would work but where the head goes the body follows. It's on him.
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