Equipment Problem or Training Problem -- Boston PD Melts Down Pepper-pellet Guns

Equipment Problem or Training Problem -- Boston PD Melts Down Pepper-pellet Guns

This is a discussion on Equipment Problem or Training Problem -- Boston PD Melts Down Pepper-pellet Guns within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; The Boston Police Department is getting rid of the pepper-pellet guns blamed for the death of a college student during Red Sox celebrations more than ...

Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: Equipment Problem or Training Problem -- Boston PD Melts Down Pepper-pellet Guns

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Kommie-fornia-stan
    Posts
    7,102

    Equipment Problem or Training Problem -- Boston PD Melts Down Pepper-pellet Guns

    The Boston Police Department is getting rid of the pepper-pellet guns blamed for the death of a college student during Red Sox celebrations more than two years ago.

    "Never. They'll never again be used in the city of Boston," police Commissioner Edward Davis told the Boston Herald for Thursday's editions.

    The department's 13 pellet guns, bought before the 2004 Democratic National Convention, will be melted down and recycled into sewer caps.

    The weapons, designed to deliver non-lethal force, have not been used Oct. 21, 2004 when Emerson College student Victoria Snelgrove died hours after being struck in the left eye with a pellet fired by police.

    Snelgrove's death, which occurred as thousands of people celebrated the Red Sox baseball team's American League Championship Series Game Seven victory over the New York Yankees, was the only time the weapons were used by Boston police. Two other revelers were struck in the head and survived.

    Davis decided they were not fit for the department. The weapons were "much more powerful than what they were perceived to be," he said.

    The department will use horse patrols or pepper spray foggers for future crowd control issues, Davis said.

    Boston paid a $5.1 million settlement to Snelgrove's parents. The Snelgroves also reached an undisclosed settlement with the gun's manufacturer.


  2. #2
    Moderator
    Array buckeye .45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    7,857
    So, someone correct me if I am wrong, but aren't the pepper-pellet guns just paintball markers that fire plastic balls filled with OC or something insetad of paint? That is what they looked like on the History Channel at least. Looked like Tippmans actually.

    And those you can adjust the velocity on. Besides isn't the new term for such technology "less lethal" instead of "non-lethal"? Because a freak shot or hit with just about any of them can kill somebody.

    If an air weapon that can kill someone in several hours with a shot to the eye (some stopping power, huh?) is too powerful for the police, what do they carry in their belt holsters?
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
    NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor

  3. #3
    Member Array jednp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Omaha, Nebraska
    Posts
    164
    Personally, I'm against firing any sort of gun into a crowd like that. In a crowd that gets out of hand, not every single person there is causing trouble. some just happened to get caught in the middle of it. Firing into a crowd like that means anyone could get hit. A gun, regardless of what type it is.. even the paintball guns like they use for the pepper balls.. should only be fired at a person who has been specifically determined a threat. Crowd control, by using force against non-combatant people... isn't the answer.

    pepper spray, tear gas.. that's one thing.. but shooting randomly at a crowd with any sort of gun isn't the way to go. I can see how this caused a death. In high school, back when paintball guns hadn't even really taken off yet.. me and my friends use to play wars with them. We used all the safety gear. I got struck in the knuckle from about 50 yards away. it busted the skin on my knuckle open and I began bleeding. These guns are more "toys"and I say toys in the sense, that they are to be used on a paintball gun field, where people wear the protective gear needed to keep them safe. They shouldn't be used as weapons for crowd control. They are best left for playing games on the battle field.

  4. #4
    Member Array Nate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Alexandria, Va.
    Posts
    407
    This is crap. The last person I want in charge of the police forces charged with protecting the populace of ANY city is someone who's going soft on things, or can't recognize an isolated incident.

    Even worse, both.

    Thumbs down to Commissioner Edward Davis.

  5. #5
    Distinguished Member Array BIG E's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    KY
    Posts
    1,443
    I think these devices work well and have their place. What if person has extreme Asthma and dies due to OC being used? Isolated incident.
    Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft!

    -- Theodore Roosevelt --

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    4,366
    A person can be killed with a PEA SHOOTER.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  7. #7
    Senior Member Array Mtbiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    530
    "The department's 13 pellet guns, bought before the 2004 Democratic National Convention, will be melted down and recycled into sewer caps."

    What does this say about the Democrats?
    -Biker

  8. #8
    Senior Member Array jualdeaux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Waponi Woo
    Posts
    1,045
    Wasn't the "gun" in question one of the FN 303 Less Lethal systems?

    http://www.fnhusa.com/products/firea...03&mid=FNM0020

  9. #9
    VIP Member
    Array OPFOR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Nomad
    Posts
    4,713
    I believe it was an FN 303. We used them in Afghanistan on "tower" duty to keep people from messing with the wire, throwing rocks at the guards, and otherwise getting squirrelly. They pack a stronger punch than a typical paint ball marker, especially with some of the special purpose rounds.

    I agree that firing into a crowd (especially at HEAD LEVEL) is a very bad idea, but these things absolutely have their place along the force continuum. This was much more a problem with training and employment, not with the equipment itself. How much better would the Boston PD be if that $5 million had been spent on training, and not on paying off the results of a lack of training?

    Their commissioner is a coward, and the worst type of sniveling apologist. He should be ashamed of himself for passing the blame for his poor training policies off on to an inanimate object that worked exactly as advertised. Of course, as a politician, he is undoubtedly lacking in any sense of personal responsibility....
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  10. #10
    Distinguished Member Array lowflyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Middle Earth
    Posts
    1,221
    I don't see how a pepper pellet gun would be more effective for crowd control than a hand-thrown cannister-type dispenser.
    Whatever doesn't kill you postpones the inevitable.

  11. #11
    VIP Member
    Array OPFOR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Nomad
    Posts
    4,713
    Pain compliance against individual targets, i.e. ring leaders and instigators. Beware of the "I don't see any need for that type of thing," as that's the same argument the antis (and Zumbo) use against us... :)
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  12. #12
    Distinguished Member Array lowflyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Middle Earth
    Posts
    1,221
    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    Pain compliance against individual targets, i.e. ring leaders and instigators. Beware of the "I don't see any need for that type of thing," as that's the same argument the antis (and Zumbo) use against us... :)
    I am wary of that argument. My question addressed the effectiveness of the tool; not the need for it. So, shoot one guy in the eye, and others will say, "Whoa, they just shot that guy in the eye! Let's get outta here!" I like it.
    Whatever doesn't kill you postpones the inevitable.

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Pellet guns
    By PAcanis in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: October 5th, 2010, 09:40 PM
  2. Mexico: Guns from the U.S., not illegal immigrants, are real problem
    By Coder in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: September 30th, 2010, 04:42 PM
  3. Dealing with the Problem Shooter; Remedial Training
    By DCJS Instructor in forum Defensive Carry & Tactical Training
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: June 21st, 2007, 01:06 PM
  4. Off the subject of guns, and on to a car problem
    By harley91 in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: May 24th, 2007, 02:15 PM
  5. A training problem.
    By Lew in forum Defensive Carry & Tactical Training
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: October 8th, 2006, 09:19 AM

Search tags for this page

boston pd guns
,
boston pd weapons
,
dealing with the problem shooter, remedial training
,

what type of horse used boston pd

Click on a term to search for related topics.