Terrorism: Coming SOON to a SCHOOL near YOU!

This is a discussion on Terrorism: Coming SOON to a SCHOOL near YOU! within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by ccw9mm OMG, no. I'm not. I know them (as a group) for the unprepared, unseasoned group they are. Hence, the 2-4yrs under ...

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Thread: Terrorism: Coming SOON to a SCHOOL near YOU!

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    OMG, no. I'm not. I know them (as a group) for the unprepared, unseasoned group they are. Hence, the 2-4yrs under appropriate training conditions. Anything else simply won't turn it around, to my way of thinking. It's that bad.
    Actually, it's a LOT worse. Some of my students don't require weapons training since they get it on the AK47 from the tutors provided by MS13 in the 'Hood. Training some of these folks will just make them better predators. But maybe I'm being a "burnout" case as a teacher. I've got to retire and soon.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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  3. #17
    Distinguished Member Array 4my sons's Avatar
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    Sadley this will never happen here

    I would sure as anyhitng sign up for it.

    In time of war:
    The Israeli answer to terrorism
    By Massad Ayoob


    ........ A third terrorist opens fire with an automatic weapon in an Israeli school. What could have been a mass murder on the scale of Columbine or greater is limited to a very short casualty list when Israeli parents and grandparents, who have provided volunteer armed security after receiving state training, open fire and kill him with their concealed pistols. ........
    This article has been posted before, It is long so I'll only post the pertinent part.

    IMHO, and I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but this is the only viable option. Armed solders are not a viable option, we do not need a police state, but we do need people in place.

    As far as schools being targets, I firmly believe it's a matter of when not if. The aftermath of attacks on middle eastern people in this country will be seen on the scale no one could imagine, 9-11 killed a lot of people, but let the news show a field of dead children, and this country will tear itself apart. This is a sad time, we can see it coming, the writing is on the wall, and we are helpless to stop it.
    "fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen." [Warren v. District of Columbia,(D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981)]
    If I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand

  4. #18
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    I don't think this type of 'terror' is limited to schools. Large churches would be a prime target as well. A church is probably an even better target than schools because of the religion factor, and the fact that hundreds of people would be already gathered in one large room.
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  5. #19
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    I've got a couple kids in school now, and this stuff does concern me (to put it simply and mildly). Unfortunately I really don't know how to get the problem fixed.

    Reading this article, "normal" people would see the need to arm adults at the school as the only viable solution. But it won't happen. Even if we send this article and copy the supporting documentation for proof (military records of the plans found, interview records, etc) the lawmakers would be so concerned about losing the next election, they would never go along with it.

    Look what happened after 9/11. Did they say we needed to be able to arm adults on an airplane? No, they created new government departments and made government employees out of all the airport screeners. Even after a large school shooting happens, you won't hear many (if any) politicians calling for an effective, Israel style solution of allowing responsible adults to be armed. They will call for federal funding to create a new government department of "federal school officers" and put an armed officer at every school. This will cost us zillions more dollars and not be nearly as efficient as allowing citizens to defend themselves.

    I am open for suggestions. Any way to put some sense in the politicians' collective heads? Any way to remind them why their position exists? I think it would offend them to tell them they exist to serve and protect the populace, not to subjugate and "provide" for them.
    eschew obfuscation

    The only thing that stops bad guys with guns is good guys with guns. SgtD

  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom G View Post
    I think that racial profiling should be used to identify the enemy. the idea of not using any tool available for this purpose is fool hearty. Until we wake up to this fact we will be at a huge disadvantage. These guys have no respect for life and play dirty. somebody needs to wake up.

    Interesting how people think racial profiling is wrong. It is used all the time in the medical field. No patient of mine ever bitched that I shouldn't have considered that they were pre-disposed to ailment "x" because of their race. They were just happy to be treated.
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  7. #21
    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom G View Post
    I think that racial profiling should be used to identify the enemy. the idea of not using any tool available for this purpose is fool hearty.
    The problem with racial profiling to prevent terrorist attacks isn't just that it offends politically correct sensibilities. It's too easy to get around. Profiling may make us safer from an attack by someone in the profiled group, but it makes us more vulnerable to an attack by someone who doesn't fit the profile. If we were to start screening everybody who looks like an Arab, or has a passport froma middle eastern country extra carefully at airport security checkpoints (hence spending less time screening everybody who doesn't fit that profile), Al Quaeda would recruit people who look like David Hicks or John Walker Lindh for the next attack.

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom G View Post
    I think that racial profiling should be used to identify the enemy. the idea of not using any tool available for this purpose is fool hearty...
    Tom,

    We've already learned this lesson as being not in anyones or the countries real interests and it to be in the bigger picture a huge waste of time at the expense of real and many innocent persons lives of those who happen to be in a minority, all so that the majority can amongst themselves enjoy a false sense of immediate security...








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    Not learning and remembering lessons from ones history is itself fool hearty.
    There are a great many Muslims in America, who are American, and do not look anything like an Iraqi or Iranian. Like Christians, Jews, Buddhist, Captialists, and every other belief system these persons, Muslims, look like everyone and anyone including me, and even you.

    Folks will think twice about racial profiling when they themselves fit the profile.

    - Janq

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  9. #23
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    Well said, Janq, particularly regarding the false sense of security racial profiling creates, along with fear and distrust.
    Cheers,
    Rod
    "We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    I don't think this type of 'terror' is limited to schools. Large churches would be a prime target as well. A church is probably an even better target than schools because of the religion factor, and the fact that hundreds of people would be already gathered in one large room.
    Well, not MY church. I carry my Sig P245 and I know for sure one of our ELDERS carries his 1911 concealed. How can I be so sure, well he told me and he's in my IDPA club.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    Not learning and remembering lessons from ones history is itself fool hearty.
    There are a great many Muslims in America, who are American, and do not look anything like an Iraqi or Iranian. Like Christians, Jews, Buddhist, Captialists, and every other belief system these persons, Muslims, look like everyone and anyone including me, and even you.

    Folks will think twice about racial profiling when they themselves fit the profile.

    - Janq

    "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it." - George Santanya
    True, and "revised" history is worse than no history. Irish terrorists were (obviously) white. Some were Catholic, some were Protestant.

    Tell a Provo he couldn't spot a ringer, and he'd tell you where to stick it. They were very, very good at discerning "tells". Intentionally ignoring a characteristc or limiting a survey to only one or two are equally ineffective.

    In healthcare, if I am presented with a 24 yo male, bilateral nipple piercings, exaggeratedly feminine mannerisms, complaining of fatigue, a severe case of jock itch (yeast infection), and a med hx of multiple ED visits for chronic infections- he's probably homosexual, and probably has HIV and/or Hep. Ignoring diagnostic indicators, and failing to act on them is ignorant and dangerous. No touchy-feely excuses. This individual's condition and history tell me what he needs, and, more importantly at this stage, what needs to be done to protect the community at large.

    We don't have to be fair, we have to be "right" more often than we are "wrong". Currently, we are failing miserably.

    If and when US-born persons of Celtic heritage, Southern Baptists, with tattoos, blowup a civic center, by all means, surveil me. I won't be offended. Unless I'm more interested in providing cover than stopping future acts.

  12. #26
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    I would never suggest sending a middle-easterners to internment camps, just as I would never treat all black patients for high blood pressure because they have a headache. I would, however, be an idiot (and negligant and immoral) not to investigate the possibility of high blood pressure in a person of a race with a pre-disposition for it.
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  13. #27
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Rob,

    The difference there with your medical assesment example is that you as a healthcare provider have the benefit of having real and factual information relevant to the specific patients issue/complaint toward figuring out what the issue might be.
    When it comes to people who may or may not be Muslim and may or may not be extremists and may or may not be involved in terrorist acts be they domestic or international, it is not so striaghtforward as that nor easy.
    We've had terrorists in recent times with largely WASP types of belief bombing Americans and shooting them in their home and at their place of work following extreme and fringe personal beliefs and/or interpreatations of their own chosen religious association to Christianity and abortion.
    Do we toss every white Chrisitan into a profile and assess them all because a very small minority domestically acts up and acts wrongly? No, that would be wholly deemd as ridiculous and ineffective and worst oppressive, as it would be.

    As to the Japanese interment camps there is no revised history there, people and persons were treated as such.
    My own grandmother and her sister were one of these persons who suffered as much, and they both were American and Black. They just happen to look Asian thanks to their very 'high yellow' complexion, slight physical frame, and tightly grouped eyes thanks to being half Cherokee Indian, 1/4 white, and 1/4 Creole. They themselves had no ability to modify their physiocal appearance yet the soldiers who deemed them to be 'Japs' grabbed them both off the street and detained them even as they swore up and down they were not Japanese but Black. Two weeks of detainment later they were released upon being able to prove their not being Japanese to whom ever was in charge of their detainment area, who himself was in the majority.
    When my grandmother was alive for most all of the time I knew her folks within my family would tease and make fun about her being 'Japanese'. Generally everyone would laugh and giggle, but her.

    Profiling is great and grand when it's results do not include you.
    This country has far too many Amercian Muslims who live, work, and play next door to each of us and whom are no more a threat to us than you are to even remotely entertain profiling them all and as a result abusing if not disregarding their civil liberties.

    The last time I checked this was America still.
    And as for southern baptists with tattoos blowing up places you might Google Alfred P. Murrah and Timothy McVeigh amongst many other terrorists in American history past & current.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  14. #28
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    Anybody see that movie with Bruce Willis and Denzel Washington: The Siege?
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  15. #29
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    The difference there with your medical assesment example is that you as a healthcare provider have the benefit of having real and factual information relevant to the specific patients issue/complaint toward figuring out what the issue might be.
    That is the difference between psychology and sociology- they are related and dependant. The individual does not act in a vacuum- they act in concert within a society or sub-culture. Identify the society or sub-culture, and you have identified most of its adherents. Not necessarily "all", but "most". John Douglas and Dan Korem both give excellent insights into this social-relativity. they are the most publicly available sources, though there are others.

    And as for southern baptists with tattoos blowing up places you might Google Alfred P. Murrah and Timothy McVeigh amongst many other terrorists in American history past & current.
    - Janq
    I've attended seminars/lectures both LE and EMS relating to the Murrah bombing, both shortly after the event, and with a few years of hind-sight. Profiling was heavily and appropriately used. There were more than a few "over-zealous" arrests, but only one has gathered much attention. Google won't give you the boots-on-the-street information. There has been a paradigm change, and it has not been for the better. The campaigns against the Aryan Brotherhood, the Vandals, the Mongols, etc., clearly show what works and what does not. There is a disparity in how certain OG and terroristic groups are treated, vis-a-vis those with a good PR team.

    Saying that extremists are solo-actors is naieve and not borne out but current research or experience. There is too much good, publicly available, info to keep drinking CAIR Cool-Aide.

  16. #30
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    Any gun-free zone is a prime and easy target. Israel doesn't have anymore attacks on their schools because teachers can be armed and armed parents and grandparents patrol the area. We just aren't as smart as they are, but they did have to learn the hard way. It's a shame we can't do better.
    "If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan

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