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FBI agents under investigation for possible misconduct in LaVoy Finicum shooting

7K views 207 replies 37 participants last post by  Rock and Glock 
#1 ·
#2 ·
This doesn't really give us much to go on. it sounds almost non-related to the actual shots that killed Lavoy. In the long run it was apparent someone was going to get hurt over this nonsense and in the end someone did. The response to what the "protesters" did should have been swifter and a lot more to the point.
 
#4 ·
Nobody will care or really take notice.

Look how fast the whole situation disappeared from the news and public discourse. A bunch of ignorant "militiamen" took over a rest stop, grandstanded while being totally unprepared and gave up at the first sign of trouble. Except for the properly dispatched Lavoy.

Rood riddance.
 
#5 ·
Actually, the fight is continuing with the people of Oregon as they try and keep their property from being taken by our government and its BLM land acquisition division.

You may not like the protesters message or the method that particular group used, but this is still America and people have the right to protest.
 
#6 ·
Actually, the fight is continuing with the people of Oregon as they try and keep their property from being taken by our government and its BLM land acquisition division.
A careful study will show that most people of Oregon don't care and are glad it's over. Many probably don't realize anything happened. The property in question is the property of the citizens of the US, for their use and enjoyment.. The occupiers wanted it divided and sold to private businesses (ranches and farms). Over 300 archeological sites on the reserve, so an argument could be made the the Native Americans have a better claim than local farmers and ranchers.
 
#8 ·
Are you referring to the city people that do not have skin in the game or the actual current land owners that are the ones that are losing property? Why should they care? Unless they value property rights but then again, considering the major urban centers and the political leanings that run rampant there, well, I see your point.

But, I was talking about the current BLM practices of taking land, not what they have already taken under dubious authority.
 
#9 ·
Incidents like this are unfortunate and very troubling. We were not there, so we don't really have enough information to form an opinion. It has been a long time since I worked for a government agency, but I can tell you they are political...maybe not highly political, but they do tend to reflect the attitudes and prejudices of the current administration and cabinet. It is my impression (and I do not want to get political) that the current administration has set up a straw man regarding "domestic terrorism." I don't mean home grown jihadists which should rightly be a concern, I mean right wing US groups who, honestly, have been infiltrated and watched for so long that they could not poot without some agency knowing it. But, since this admin appears to be pro-Muslim, the focus has shifted toward other types of "terrorism." I think it is a stretch to call the folks up in Oregon "domestic terrorists." They may have been wrong or misled and I think they went about things the wrong way, but terrorists...no. Even going back to Ruby Ridge and the Branch Davidians, these were splinter groups of political extremists but hardly terrorists, at least not by my definition. All of these incidents probably could have been avoided, but things in the field just don't always work out to a good outcome. There are just too many contingencies. I know people and still have close friends who worked for the FBI and other agencies, and often several agencies worked together on various tasks and operations. These are not bad people, but I am sure that, just like in street LEO's work, they get caught up in situations that require an immediate response and snap judgement and things sometimes turn out badly. Do not talk to me about the media, whom I consider public enemy number one. There is a lot of coordination required in field ops, and the chain of command has to be clear or you will have trouble. This may sound insensitive, but it is not meant to be...but these various government agencies pre-empt a huge number of intelligence breaches, financial fraud, security fraud, international murder or blackmail plots, and countless other crimes that we never hear about. Incidents like Ruby Ridge, the Davidians, and Oregon do not happen very often...they are the price we sometimes pay for the security these agencies provide about which many have no clue.
 
#10 ·
An FBI agent could be accused of "misconduct" for using the wrong toilet tissue or the wrong color of pen or his necktie being not straight.

There's tons of good reasons why the FBI has roughly a 1/3 turnover annually. :icon_neutral:

I personally know one agent who was "under investigation" for a year and half. His "crime"? He was one minute off on the sign-in sheet from the official clock.....even though he was five minutes early to work.

Given the atmosphere of the FBI organization I put zero credence into this allegation. File it under "Much To About Nothing". Anyone who's been around this forum for awhile knows I'm not a fan of the FBI but 99% of that is directed at FBI management and their attitude that permeates down to Special Agent level.

That said I'm giving the benefit of doubt to the guys on the ground in this deal. Their brass in Wash DC really have nothing better to do.
 
#12 ·
So a question that has come to my mind.

If they had peacefully left the occupied building why did they need to be ambushed and arrested by the state police and an FBI HRT team?

Not really sure on the whole purpose that was behind the plan to take these men into custody.
 
#18 ·
The FBI seems to be the only civilian federal agency that has consequences for any type of misbehavior (even if they might go overboard), however, the sagebrush rebellion has been building for some 40 years and this ending is not going to help reduce the tensions regardless of how justified any governmental agency finds the shooting.
 
#20 ·
A bigger deal seems to have been made over the secret service and the south American hookers.

Bassackwards

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#22 ·
Well I just watched a video from inside the vehicle recorded on a cell phone.

He fled from a felony traffic stop after threatening bloodshed and his people were on the way.

He attempted to run a roadblock and exited the vehicle yelling shoot me.

In the enhanced video done by the local TV station it clearly shows him reaching to his belt before a shot is ever fired.

He was found to have a loaded 9mm pistol on his person.

After he is shot the woman in the back seat stated several times publically that the truck was riddled with bullets and dozens if not hundreds of live rounds were fired. Oops not one live round was fired into the truck, not one. The OSP used flash bangs and 12 gauge Ferret Gas rounds to force them from the vehicle. She lied plain and simple to garner support for their cause.

Members of the 3% movement have remained silent since the new video's have surfaced. Many state and local groups have stated publically that they were wrong in their assumptions about the shooting.

Was it tragic? Absolutely, however he stated he would go down in a hail of gunfire and he got what he wanted. As far as the others in the compound, they ran leaving dozens of weapons behind the minute the news of the shooting came out. If he had complied as the people in the other vehicle did he would be alive to fight it out in court but he chose to play a stupid game and won the ultimate stupid prize.
 
#24 ·
Were they asking him if he was armed and if yes, where was the gun?

He never touched the gun.

I would like to hear the audio.
 
#23 ·
l suspect he didn't actually own or possess any stolen 9mm handgun. Whatever the truth is, is what matters.Were these self proclaimed militia or is that just the label they were given? People seem unaware of just how much propaganda is in everything we see and hear. What is the damn truth? It is bothersome how many couldn't wait to see them shot dead. They were not ISIS for Gods sake! What a country...
 
#26 ·
Watching that video, all of those officers should be tried for murder and 1983 violations. Don't know what Tacman seen but I did not see him reaching for his belt, then they left his body here with nobody rendering any medical aid, then shooting into the truck with what appeared to be minors in it. They need to be held accountable, but the most that will happen is they get some paid time off, maybe one or two will lose a job, collect their pension and go on with life. They give the true heroes of law enforcement a bad name.
 
#33 ·
Bingo. The Feds couldnt allow them to get into a county where the sheriff knew his authority and upholds his oath.

He plainly told the Feds where he was going, invited them to follow him there. All that needed done wss that. And the man doesnt die.
Of course they dont get arressted by theOSP or the Feds.
That is why the ambush was set where it was. All if them would have been killed before they were allowed to reach that sheriff, no matter what it took or story that had to be made up.
Again the Feds credibility is shot. They fired and covered it up.
Of course the OSP was going to be cleared even though neither video matches their any yarn they have sun so far.
 
#29 ·
Pictures of the vehicle or so the Bundy Bunch claimed was shot with 100 bullets. Over and over and over the Bundy crew showed their true colors.

View attachment 124951
Show us the rest of the truck. Thats one side. Let me tell ya, I am sure if your sitting in a car, you hear what sounds like gun shots, you have glass breaking, your going to assume your being shot at. I also am sure the Gmen were not going to let those who surrendered back to the truck which would tell me they more than likely did not see what if any damage and was basing it on assumptions. Was the protesters in the right, absolutely not. But the Gmen in this case were blood thirsty and they wanted to end it and taking a life was how they seen fit. They could have allowed him to go to the sheriff but they did not want the sheriff using his home rule to tell them to bud out. There is no reason they had to leave him laying there to die and not render medical aid.
 
#38 ·
Ive said this from the start after wstchin arial video. Hes not reaching for a gun.
He is reacting to being hit twice on his left side . Once in the left shoulder again higher in the shoulder near his neck.
The final shot hit his right side and went up into his heart killing him the autopsy shows.

He nevef reached for a gun period if there even was one.

He was involuntarily grabbing at his wounds while trying to keep his hands up. Two hits two grabs third hit dead.
The FBI tried to kill him getting out of the truck hands up and missed.
Of course they covered it up.
The man was murdered. The others very lucky to get out alive. If they can stay that way now.
 
#42 ·
Oh dear lord.

The video I am referring to is one done by a local TV station that both slowed and enlarged the original drone video, it is all over youtube and facebook simply google it. It shows him reaching for his belt/jacket before he is shot it is known as a furtive movement. If you act like you are reaching for a gun the officer can assume you are reaching for a gun or as SCOTUS said "If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and waddles like a duck it is probably a duck"

Where in that picture do you see dozens, hundreds or whatever bullet holes? Yes glass was broken out by the gas rounds as was stated by the people in the truck? Do you not think it is strange is this was some big conspiracy to kill them all they would used something besides flash bangs and gas rounds?

All he had to do was comply, fight it out in court have his 15 minutes of fame. In regards to him trying to get to the constitutional sheriff and all that nonsense how do you think the OSP knew where he would be at and at what time? Could it be the Sheriff set up the meeting in order to get them to leave the compound? Do you think they set up a random roadblock just on the off chance he would come by.

As I stated the female in the vehicle lied over and over again. Show me the hundreds of bullet holes in the truck? Show me anything other than broken out windows from the flash bangs and gas rounds.

Take off your tinfoil hats and look at the facts and evidence.
 
#43 ·
I think that it was another poster that said he had heard claims of 100's of bullet holes from someone in the vehicle.

I guess if you were sitting in a vehicle that is being bombarded with shots, it would be difficult to count them or to tell what kind of shots they were whether gun shots, tear gas or whatever.

I have no idea how many holes they shot in the vehicle's windows which, of course were shattered.

The official count according to the investigators is 4, three of which came from State Police and 1 which came from a Fed. The Fed is the one that initially claimed to have not fired any shots but is now not commenting on legal advise.
 
#44 ·
We are. The man was shot at the first time getting out of the truck. Anyone believe OSP didnt know that?
Then he was shot in the back with his hands up and reacted to it.
We have OSP caught in a coverup, FBI caught in the same cover up.

A woman cowering in a truck being struck by a bunch of gas rounds can reasonably be assumed to believe shes being shot at.

Apparently the serial number on the pistol "found" on him was a stolen gun. Not even his.
Alot could be disvovered by simply tracing that pistol.
Nobody has accused the man of being a gum theif.
 
#46 ·
I found a different site with more than one photo. I think I understand what concerns the FBI. Its the shot through the roof of the pickup. Depending on the time it was fired, the shooter would've had little or no target identification. This is judging (photo and scene diagram) the angle of trajectory and point of rest of the vehicle. If the shot was taken when Mr. "Shoot me right here" guy was outside, the angle was way off. So yeah, as his bosses I'd want to know what happened. Was it operator error with the rifle or just operator error? And the second shot missing everything? An average FBI agent you could figure nerves or poor shooting, but an HRT operator....that does raise questions.
 
#47 ·
I think the point is that they should not have been shooting at all.

The first shot rang out right as he exits the vehicle, way before there is anything remotely looking like someone is reaching for a gun and at the point when his hands are in the air.
 
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#48 ·
If you want a good laugh go back the original thread about the incident and listen to the eyewitness "testimony" in the video linked on page 7 and compare it to the actual videos of the event.
The truck being riddled with bullets, Finicum just walking with his hands up and being shot simultaneously by several people, then being shot three more times after he was down. The cops shooting at the truck for five to ten more minutes after that.

Great witness.
 
#49 ·
So many questions. They are claiming he was reaching inside his coat to get a Ruger 9mm with his right hand, but the picture shows it was in the left "pocket." If you look at the picture, the grip is facing rear which defies logic for a cross draw from inside a coat pocket. The gun also looks brand spanking new like it has never been fired.

So I'm having a hard time comprehending that a guy who had been pictured numerous times with a quality, right handed shoulder holster would suddenly pocket carry a brand new full-sized pistol inside a levi jacket pocket liner in the left handed draw position. It defies my simple logic.

Add the country's most elite anti-terrorist team possibly lying and covering it up, along with alleged dubious actions "after" the shooting resulting in an investigation of the investigator's investigation. It's hard not to wonder *** is going on here!
 

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