Not ALL of the VT Victims Died Like Sheep

This is a discussion on Not ALL of the VT Victims Died Like Sheep within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by czman2006 I wish someone had stopped this madman before he murdered so many but please don't call them "sheep". These were college ...

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Thread: Not ALL of the VT Victims Died Like Sheep

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    No offense...just understand....

    Quote Originally Posted by czman2006 View Post
    I wish someone had stopped this madman before he murdered so many but please don't call them "sheep". These were college kids who in their worst nightmare didn't imagine this could ever happen to them. I understand your point and appreciate all the other info but the term "sheep" just seems misplaced to me. JMHO, hope this doesn't offend.
    I appreciate your sensitivity on this matter. You need to read this essay to understand our point of view. In our paradigm of the world, there are ONLY three types of people: SHEEP, WOLVES & SHEEPDOGS. Read this carefully and understand that we mean nothing inappropriate about the reference:

    http://www.blackfive.net/main/2004/1..._hang_wit.html
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    WOW that is amazing. I love Saint Bernards. I have two Newfoundlands, myself. If I were to believe in reincarnation, I'd want to come back as a newfie.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  4. #18
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    Three Types of People...But...

    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier View Post
    I appreciate your sensitivity on this matter. You need to read this essay to understand our point of view. In our paradigm of the world, there are ONLY three types of people: SHEEP, WOLVES & SHEEPDOGS. Read this carefully and understand that we mean nothing inappropriate about the reference:

    http://www.blackfive.net/main/2004/1..._hang_wit.html
    Two parts to the situation...you're either part of the problem, or part of the solution (the problem=wolf, the solution=sheepdog...the sheep are neither, and hand over their future to either the wolf or the sheepdog...
    This is not being critical, nor sarcastic, just the real world. We all choose to be either part of the solution, or we suffer at the hands of the problem...so to speak!

    This basic question of being armed or not divides many people...I choose to be part of my own solution, not subject to someone else's problem...

    Stay armed...stay safe!

    ret

    How many more innocent lives will be lost before the majority says, enough is enough?
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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  5. #19
    Ex Member Array DOGOFWAR01's Avatar
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    EX-SOLDIER

    Thank you for the post, sheds a lot of light on this incident.

    Lots of other good comments.

    Armed and Ready 24/7 - anywhere and anytime. with even just a few of them., might stopped this person much sooner.

    Citizens of this Nation are the first and last line defense, for the Nation, Family, and Friends. Armed Citizens are more effective as a defense than Non-Armed Citizens.

    The NRA could play a crucial role in this critical area if the NRA so desired with the NRA Personal Protection "IN" the Home and NRA Personal Protection "OUTSIDE" the Home.

    I hope the NRA will step up to the plate and play ball, State by State not on a Federal Level, encouraging the States to allow carry 24 /7 by both open and concealed carry - anytime and "anywhere" (including schools, colleges, State-County-City Govt property, churches, and eating establishments that serve beer, etc), and get the Fed's to allow for carry in U.S. Post Offices, at the very least for Customers.

    I hope the NRA will again step up to the plate, by deleting the NRA requirement (not required by any law) for a lawyer and/or Peace Officer for both of the NRA Personal Protection courses to increase the availability of these two classes across the Nation for all Citizens, much easier to schedule classes and can offer more classes if a lawyer is not required by the NRA. Deleting this lawyer requirement will also reduce the costs for classes, making the classes more affordable for the Masses of the Citizens of this Nation.

    These NRA classes are good Basic classes with a wealth of knowledge for the untrained Masses of Citizens of this Nation. Which can be completed in 1 to 2 days. Basic training is the foundation on which all other training including Advance training builds from.

    The NRA has Instructors across the Nation which can instruct these courses, without the NRA lawyer requirement many more classes can be taught and many more Citizens can be trained to protect their Families, Self, and Friends.

    The ball is in the "Court" of the NRA, the NRA can chose to pick up the ball and play or the NRA can chose to turn it's back and simply walk away. The decision to be made rests at the NRA HQ for a decision.

    With this VA Tech incident in the backyard of the NRA in Fairfax, VA; along with the NRA's primary two missions of Training and protecting the Second Amendment - the sleeping giant needs to awake and stir the pot both internally within the NRA and externally within the State Govt's.

    A NRA Member.

  6. #20
    Senior Member Array czman2006's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=retsupt99;356998]Two parts to the situation...you're either part of the problem, or part of the solution (the problem=wolf, the solution=sheepdog...the sheep are neither, and hand over their future to either the wolf or the sheepdog...
    This is not being critical, nor sarcastic, just the real world. We all choose to be either part of the solution, or we suffer at the hands of the problem...so to speak!

    This basic question of being armed or not divides many people...I choose to be part of my own solution, not subject to someone else's problem...



    I own one assault shotgun and 12 handguns and always carry, so I would not consider myself a sheep by any stretch of the imagination. My only point was a little sensitivity would be appropriate, instead of impying that anyone who chooses not to carry or own a gun is part of the problem. I know many people who choose not to own guns but are not anti-gun at all. I wish someone had of stopped this shooter but let's not make it worse on the families of the victims or on people like myself who knew and lost two friends to this madman. Not flaming and I respect others opinions but these men and women do not deserve to be called sheep.
    "Let not your heart be troubled." John 14:1

    USN Retired Vietnam/Desert Shield/Desert Storm

  7. #21
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    [QUOTE=czman2006;357330


    My only point was a little sensitivity would be appropriate, instead of impying that anyone who chooses not to carry or own a gun is part of the problem. I know many people who choose not to own guns but are not anti-gun at all. I wish someone had of stopped this shooter but let's not make it worse on the families of the victims or on people like myself who knew and lost two friends to this madman. Not flaming and I respect others opinions but these men and women do not deserve to be called sheep.[/QUOTE]

    I agree. There was also a prior thread on this subject of calling people sheep some time ago.

    Ron
    "It does not do to leave a dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him."

    J. R. R. Tolkien

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    We cannot be completely egalitarian. If you never compare yourself to others, and strive to be better than you were the day before, and better than your fellows will be tomorrow...................................you may never truly BE.

    We must treat each other as equals, but recognize that we not. Doing otherwise lessens all standards.

    FWIW.

  9. #23
    Ron
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob72 View Post
    We cannot be completely egalitarian. If you never compare yourself to others, and strive to be better than you were the day before, and better than your fellows will be tomorrow...................................you may never truly BE.

    We must treat each other as equals, but recognize that we not. Doing otherwise lessens all standards.

    FWIW.
    Agreed, but we should be careful about painting with too broad a brush, and labeling everyone who elects not to carry a gun as sheep. For example, to suggest that Prof Librescu was a sheep is almost obscene.

    I recognize that my view on this is a minority opinion and really am not intending to reopen the prior thread.

    Ron
    "It does not do to leave a dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him."

    J. R. R. Tolkien

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    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    For example, to suggest that Prof Librescu was a sheep is almost obscene. Ron
    I do not, and I agree fully.

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    Exclamation Actually....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron View Post
    For example, to suggest that Prof Librescu was a sheep is almost obscene.Ron
    Actually if you'll read what I wrote on the incident I suggested the only sheepdog present (that I knew of at the time -- there were others as we subsequently discovered) was Prof Librescu: Survivor of the Holocaust and escapee from communist Romania. Being an Israeli citizen with those credentials he was undoubtedly the first to recognize the grave dangers. He would have been trained and experienced in the use of firearms, but he was a defanged sheepdog that day, so he used the only tool he had. He put his own body in the line of fire to protect his students. So YES! Prof Librescu was most definitely a Sheepdog that day and did us all proud.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  12. #26
    Ron
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier View Post
    Actually if you'll read what I wrote on the incident I suggested the only sheepdog present (that I knew of at the time -- there were others as we subsequently discovered) was Prof Librescu: Survivor of the Holocaust and escapee from communist Romania. Being an Israeli citizen with those credentials he was undoubtedly the first to recognize the grave dangers. He would have been trained and experienced in the use of firearms, but he was a defanged sheepdog that day, so he used the only tool he had. He put his own body in the line of fire to protect his students. So YES! Prof Librescu was most definitely a Sheepdog that day and did us all proud.
    I read what you wrote and know that you most appropriately mentioned Prof Librescu as one of the heroes. My post was in response to Rob's post, and I simply used Prof Librescu as an example.
    "It does not do to leave a dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him."

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    Senior Member Array Musketeer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by czman2006 View Post
    I wish someone had stopped this madman before he murdered so many but please don't call them "sheep". These were college kids who in their worst nightmare didn't imagine this could ever happen to them. I understand your point and appreciate all the other info but the term "sheep" just seems misplaced to me. JMHO, hope this doesn't offend.
    I agree completely in this case. When it comes to those advocating a completely passive stance I have no problem calling them sheeple. They are alive to argue the point if they should wish.

    Calling the college students who were completely unprepared to face this nightmare sheep is downrigth disrespectful to the dead. The fact is the majority of society does not look any further than immediately in front of them in regards to safety. Those people identify very strongly with those students who were shot to death while frozen with terror. Calling them sheep insults not only the dead but every person out there who relates to them.

    When we are dealing with real innocent people who have been slaughterred the term "sheep" should be completely off limits.

  14. #28
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    Lightbulb czman2006, Ron and Musketeer...

    Quote Originally Posted by Musketeer View Post
    Calling the college students who were completely unprepared to face this nightmare sheep is downrigth disrespectful to the dead. The fact is the majority of society does not look any further than immediately in front of them in regards to safety. Those people identify very strongly with those students who were shot to death while frozen with terror. Calling them sheep insults not only the dead but every person out there who relates to them.

    When we are dealing with real innocent people who have been slaughterred the term "sheep" should be completely off limits.
    You guys are missing my point. With respect, once again, MY view of the world (shared by many on this forum) has ONLY three types of people. SHEEP, WOLVES and SHEEPDOGS. That it seems to be this way is the fault of our "enlightened" society. Have any of you read the SHEEPDOG ESSAY completely? If you did you might remember a sentence that reads something to the effect of...I mean nothing negative in calling them SHEEP....The only difference between sheep and sheepdogs is that sheepdogs can survive and thrive in conditions that destroy 98% of the rest of the population.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Musketeer View Post
    Calling the college students who were completely unprepared to face this nightmare sheep is downrigth disrespectful to the dead.
    In the case of these students, lets just call them "lambs." Adults maybe, but most without enough life experience or training to convert.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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