2nd degree murder charges filed in TN

This is a discussion on 2nd degree murder charges filed in TN within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Here's a link to a bummer story. In a nutshell, convenience store clerk shoots thief when he is running away outside the store. If that ...

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Thread: 2nd degree murder charges filed in TN

  1. #1
    Member Array whamonkey's Avatar
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    2nd degree murder charges filed in TN

    Here's a link to a bummer story. In a nutshell, convenience store clerk shoots thief when he is running away outside the store. If that isn't bad enough, the clerk had a prior where he shot the tire of an 18-wheeler at the same station, resulting in no charges because they couldn't locate the trucker. The "anti's" are gonna have a field day.

    http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs....BWV/g8PXDYE%3D

    Anyway, charges have been filed in this case....2nd degree murder. Yikes.

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  3. #2
    Ex Member Array Pete's Avatar
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    Sounds like someone longed to take the law into his own hands, he obviously had undertook zero training and if he did have a permit in TN he did not listen during the class when he would've been told that you never shoot someone in the back.



    Why is this is 'success stories' subforum?

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    Senior Member Array Fragman's Avatar
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    No threat

    This guy seems to have had two cases (that we know about) of firing at something that isn't or is no longer a threat.

    Seems to me he is going to reap what he sowed. As for the anti's, I think that showing that we condemn this type of act as much as anyone is the best we can do.

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    Senior Member Array Smith&Wessonfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0.02 View Post
    he did not listen during the class when he would've been told that you never shoot someone in the back.
    Who teaches something so utterly devoid of common sense?

    If I ever witnessed an active shooter from his six, I would have NO, I repeat NO hesitation about shooting him in the back. Preferably right through the cerebral cortex.

    Never say never.

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    Ex Member Array Pete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smith&Wessonfan View Post
    Who teaches something so utterly devoid of common sense?

    If I ever witnessed an active shooter from his six, I would have NO, I repeat NO hesitation about shooting him in the back. Preferably right through the cerebral cortex.

    Never say never.
    Ok, I'll assume you are deliberately misunderstanding me.
    For the benefit of this scenario, which I was obviously referring to, shooting a fleeing BG in the back is a no-no.

    As for shooting a BG in the back who was attacking someone else (which is what I understand you are referring to) then that's your call, if you shoot people in the back and juries are ok with that then carry on.

    In my carry class, which you have already dismissed as 'utterly devoid of common sense', we were taught to call 911 and be a good witness.

    YMMV, I am sure of that...

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    Quote Originally Posted by 0.02 View Post
    Ok, I'll assume you are deliberately misunderstanding me.
    For the benefit of this scenario, which I was obviously referring to, shooting a fleeing BG in the back is a no-no.

    As for shooting a BG in the back who was attacking someone else (which is what I understand you are referring to) then that's your call, if you shoot people in the back and juries are ok with that then carry on.

    In my carry class, which you have already dismissed as 'utterly devoid of common sense', we were taught to call 911 and be a good witness.

    YMMV, I am sure of that...
    Exactly! In Tennessee one must be in imminent fear for his life or serious bodily harm. How does a fleeing person meet the imminent threat requirement?
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    Member Array whamonkey's Avatar
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    Sorry to post here...I didn't know where to put it. Mods may move.....their call.

    The facts may bear something out....what if the clerk thought the BG was going to his car to get a weapon? Tough call for the shooter, you never know what kind of exchange went down prior to the shooting.

    Either way, it will be difficult for the jury to look past his previous shooting if that is allowed as evidence against him.

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    Senior Member Array Fragman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whamonkey View Post
    Sorry to post here...I didn't know where to put it. Mods may move.....their call.

    The facts may bear something out....what if the clerk thought the BG was going to his car to get a weapon? Tough call for the shooter, you never know what kind of exchange went down prior to the shooting.

    Either way, it will be difficult for the jury to look past his previous shooting if that is allowed as evidence against him.
    If he was going to his car to get a weapon, you would have thought he would have used it to try and rob the joint in the first place.

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    Member Array whamonkey's Avatar
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    Maybe the guy was strung out...acting odd...stealing hats and beer aren't robbery material IMO. Either way it could have been an argument gone south in a hurry...that's all I'm saying.

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    I'm not condoning what this guy did, but we shouldn't whitewash all in the back shootings, wait for all the facts to come out
    If they are presenting the viable threat, aiming/shooting over their shoulder or pointing behind them as they run then they are a threat to be dealt with accordingly.
    Smith&Wessonfan...is this what you were referring to?

    my chl instructor (LEO) was chasing a 16 yr old, running away with a pistol in his hand, both officers told him to stop twice, he then proceeded to point his gun back at them firing while running away, the officers responded-one with pistol one with 12 ga-and stopped the threat, they were no-billed by the grand jury because he was shooting at the officers and they defended themselves
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    Sure, if he was shooting at you then the situation meets the imminent threat to life or serious bodily harm and the use of deadly force is justified.

    As to maybe he was going to get a weapon, you cannot use deadly force until they represent a threat to your life or serious bodily harm.

    What if he was running to the car yelling I'm gonna get my gun and kill you? And when he reaches the car, he jumps in and drives off?
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    ... firing at something that isn't or is no longer a threat.
    That surely seems to be the key factor. If you're not at risk of grave/crippling injury or death, there is effectively very little justification for killing somone.

    "Field day"? Yeah, almost certainly.
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    I somewhat feel this could sit better in law enforcement section as there is a 2nd degree murder charge - altho even that is perhaps not exactly ideal.

    As so often - more info is needed really but superficially at least if the BG was simply fleeing then the clerk is in a world of hurt.
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    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whamonkey View Post
    Sorry to post here...I didn't know where to put it. Mods may move.....their call.

    The facts may bear something out....what if the clerk thought the BG was going to his car to get a weapon? Tough call for the shooter, you never know what kind of exchange went down prior to the shooting.

    Either way, it will be difficult for the jury to look past his previous shooting if that is allowed as evidence against him.
    I find it interesting that simply reading a reporter's account is sufficient for some people to immediately presume the clerk is guilty.

    Perhaps we should wait for evidence and maybe even a trial before assessing whether the clerk should be punished.

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    I'm not so sure we're discussing the guilt or innocence of the clerk but rather the circumstances allowed by law for the use of deadly force.
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