June 2nd, 2007 09:08 PM
UK- " Police marksman suspended after shooting civilian"
It appears as though the ATF agent in Fla--"I'm the only one here qualified to use this gun"---is now in the UK......
(more fodder for the Anti- Glock bunch...)
Police marksman suspended after shooting civilian during pistol demonstration
A police marksman is under investigation after accidentally shooting a colleague in an extraordinary blunder.
The victim, a civilian employee, was seriously injured in the accident at a lecture room at the HQ of Thames Valley Police near Oxford.
He was apparently being shown the workings of a police Glock pistol when it went off, blasting him in the torso.
The victim, aged in his 50s, was left writhing in agony with blood pouring from the wound.
He underwent emergency surgery and his condition was described as serious but stable.
The hugely embarrassing incident prompted a major internal investigation and stunned officers.
One police source at the HQ said: "There are a lot of red faces about this. Why the hell was an experienced firearms officer demonstrating with a loaded pistol in an enclosed environment?
"Someone's head will have to roll."
The victim was among a group of about a dozen civilian employees attending a pre-lunch lecture at the Kidlington headquarters when the blunder happened.
New employees were being shown the work of the tactical firearms unit when the gun went off and the man was hit at close range.
He was taken by ambulance to hospital in a serious condition, having lost "a lot of blood".
The police source added: "There was a tremendous hoo-haa as it was realised the gun which he was showing off had actually 'got one up the spout' and had shot one of his colleagues.
"There was lots of claret (blood) about as a result of the shooting and the officer was immediately suspended and his gun seized."
In a statement the IPCC said: "We are conducting an independent investigation into the discharge of a Thames Valley Police firearm that occurred yesterday.
"The incident occurred during a Thames Valley Police firearms awareness training course, when one bullet was discharged, wounding a member of police staff (a control room operator) in the torso.
"The wounded man, who is in his 50s, is in hospital in Oxford and is in a serious but stable condition.
"The firearms awareness session was taking place in a room on police property in Kidlington, Oxfordshire, and involved 11 police control room operators from across the force.
"Thames Valley Police referred the matter to the Independent Police Complaints Commission, and IPCC investigators have attended the scene of the discharge today, and begun to gather evidence."
IPCC Commissioner Deborah Glass added: "I have decided that we should conduct an independent investigation, using our own investigators, to establish the circumstances of this incident.
"The investigation will examine how live ammunition came to be present in a firearm during an awareness session and consider whether any criminal or disciplinary offences have been committed."
She added that details of the police marksman who fired the gun would be a matter for Thames Valley Police to reveal if they wished.
Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca
"If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper
June 2nd, 2007 09:31 PM
So how about the "There's a safety in the trigger" argument?
I know, I know, his finger should never have ben on the trigger to begin with...
June 2nd, 2007 09:34 PM
Originally Posted by jdlv4_0
June 2nd, 2007 09:42 PM
There was lots of "claret," eh? Holes do that. Got to love Brit wit, particularly in times of trouble.
The question isn't how it got in there. The question is: how it wasn't ejected out of there. Awareness, indeed.
... how live ammunition came to be present in a firearm during an awareness session ..."
Let the "mass redundancy" begin, I suppose.
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
June 2nd, 2007 09:51 PM
Seems they also (sadly) are forgetting the huge benefits of rule #
Egg on face or even suspension is one thing - actual injury to third party is quite another.
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."
- a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.
June 3rd, 2007 12:21 PM
Oops! When you don't grow up with guns, maybe the "rules" aren't as well ingrained? I dunno...
The only thing that stops bad guys with guns is good guys with guns. SgtD
June 3rd, 2007 12:26 PM
Familiarity breeds contempt?
"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson
Nemo Me Impune Lacesset
June 3rd, 2007 05:35 PM
"He was apparently being shown the workings of a police Glock pistol when it went off, blasting him in the torso."
"The victim, aged in his 50s, was left writhing in agony with blood pouring from the wound."
I would have been shocked out of my socks if he did not "writhe in agony."
Is this called A/D or an N/D in jolly old England?
June 3rd, 2007 05:44 PM
The UK is lost. Watch for Sharia Law to be the law of significant parts of England in less than 10 years.
June 3rd, 2007 06:21 PM
Proof, of course, that if the gun ban is good enough for the subjects, it should apply to the cops there, too.
This guy was one of the "tactical firearms unit"? Good grief!
Perhaps it's what we should expect when people who you know have never handled or been around firearms all their lives are then hired as police officers and finally, only once they're adults, are indoctrinated with gun safety.
I think that people who grow up around guns and learn the safety rules are far more likely to have them intrinsically ingrained in them. It's like, who's going to be a better snowboarder at age 20 -- someone who learned at age 4, or at age 20?
Heads should roll, all right.
This couldn't have happened to the victim in a better country; after all, what country is better set up as a welfare state to take care of this guy, with a disability, for the rest of his life on the public dole?
June 3rd, 2007 06:38 PM
Well, actually since it says he was showing the "inner workings," and it was a Glock, at some point he did have to have his finger on the trigger. (Not neccessarily Glock bashing here, its just the truth, the trigger must be pulled to disassemble them). Probably should have checked the chamber more throughly a few more times. (I check my Sigma about 100 times, or so it seems, before dissassembly)
Originally Posted by jdlv4_0
Maybe he should have been following number 2 more closely though, if that one is always followed, nobody gets shot in the gut.
Fortes Fortuna Juvat
Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor
June 3rd, 2007 07:09 PM
Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey
June 3rd, 2007 07:11 PM
You know, that's a very good point about having to pull the trigger. Like you said, thats why we have The Rules.
Originally Posted by buckeye07
June 3rd, 2007 08:29 PM
Yep. The gun is always loaded.
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June 3rd, 2007 08:44 PM
I learned an object lesson years ago when I handed a GI who worked for me a revolver and told him it was loaded and he pulled the trigger and shot a hole in my ceiling. Now I check a gun and unload it before showing it to someone. You can never predict behavior. All guns should be treated as though loaded. The rule says never point a gun at anything you don't intend to shoot whether it is loaded or not.It [is loaded] for all intents and purposes. A cartridge is stored energy waiting to harm or kill. The policeman knew that but let his mind wander. If you handle guns you have to develop a mindset that repeats the same old tired rules as though they were the word. You never lapse into neglect or bordom.
SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM
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