Inside Special Forces - Documentary by National Geographic (Video)

Inside Special Forces - Documentary by National Geographic (Video)

This is a discussion on Inside Special Forces - Documentary by National Geographic (Video) within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJWxcI5sFW4 Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=200yk1qJ61A Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IePtIkGkiE Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=le9ub2FnrrY Part 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LdIuKH7WPs Part 6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyJKEI7tH80...

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Array cagueits's Avatar
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  2. #2
    VIP Member Array sgtD's Avatar
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    Good post.

    One fact that is glaringly true, is what the guy said in the 1st video. When it comes to the U.S. the only enemy we will likely face is of an uncovintional nature. No enemy can match us on the battlefield. Those days are over. terrorism and unconventional geurilla warfare are the rule of the day.

    The enemy has learned the lesson of Vietnam and other battles well. Sometimes I wonder if our superior miltary strength and ability as a country, when compared to others, will not lead to our eventual downfall for the reason stated above.
    When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts & minds will follow. Semper Fi.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgtD View Post
    the only enemy we will likely face is of an uncovintional nature. No enemy can match us on the battlefield.
    The big scary question is, can WE match them on their battle field? So far I don't think we're doing that well.
    Rick

    EOD - Initial success or total failure

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    VIP Member Array ELCruisr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rstickle View Post
    The big scary question is, can WE match them on their battle field? So far I don't think we're doing that well.
    I think one of the biggest problems is we are on the moral high ground when it comes to using civilians as shields, hiding in churches, schools, hospitals, etc. We also don't accept killing large numbers of innocents to make a point. They don't care at all. We can win if we have the fortitude as a nation to do the job, root out the trouble and stomp it flat. We did some of this for many years, very quietly and unknown. That was when terrorism was at it's lowest ebb. When we slacked off, due to politics, they reemerged. That's the problem with populist politics, vigilance and defense suffers than we all pay.
    If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. ~ Thomas J. Watson, Jr.

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    Lead Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELCruisr View Post
    When we slacked off, due to politics, they reemerged.
    Don't forget, that is part of the tactic, and we just don't seem to get it. This isn't something that can be won with "smart bombs" (or the high road).
    Rick

    EOD - Initial success or total failure

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array ELCruisr's Avatar
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    I think we can take the high road as far as innocents are concerned, but a building is a building and if you want to hide in it then you might expect it to get nailed.

    In the seventies and eighties we were waging a very quiet and effective war without many (especially the press) knowing much about it. A certain left wing president didn't like the idea of assassinating terrorists before they hit us. He was afraid of the political repercussions if it got leaked. Some high ranking people were encouraged to retire and some intel folks were told their services were no longer needed in this kinder, gentler new world. It wasn't that many years after that that we had 9/11. We need to get back to operating on their turf and terminating their people before they can act. It is a down 'n dirty war that may never end but not fighting it has even worse implications.

    The biggest crime was the loss of the human intel factor during that period. It can take many, many years to regain what was lost through these acts and the basic attrition of retirement and such. Heaven save us from the politicians.....
    If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. ~ Thomas J. Watson, Jr.

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    VIP Member Array Sig 210's Avatar
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    "Don't forget, that is part of the tactic, and we just don't seem to get it. This isn't something that can be won with "smart bombs" (or the high road)."

    Good post. The bad guys did not stay "shocked and awed" for very long. Politicians and generals just do not trust Special Forces and SEALS, therefore they are seldom used properly in their unconventional role in war time.

    There is something about those folks being out there in small groups, kind of on their own that bugs the heck out of generals and politicians. The brass is always afraid that unconventional forces folks will find some enemy agent and summarily off the guy. Or they may make the enemy agent a little uncomfortable while he is being questioned.

    Remember that Abrams ordered Army Special Forces out of Viet Nam, i think in 1970. Carter personally managed the multi service debacle that was to be the rescue of US hostages in Iran. Do not think that things have gotten much better since then.

  8. #8
    Lead Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig 210 View Post
    Politicians and generals just do not trust Special Forces and SEALS, therefore they are seldom used properly in their unconventional role in war time.
    Oh it goes back further than that. You can find amazing examples of "Special" unit misuse in WWII and Korea also. I can even point to a couple in the US Army as far back as the Revolutionary War.

    Sadly the instance of "unconventional" warfare has really increased in the post WWII era, and our ability to change with the times and learn from our errors hasn't kept pace (in my opinion).
    Rick

    EOD - Initial success or total failure

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array Sig 210's Avatar
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    "Oh it goes back further than that."

    Yes it does and you cite very good examples. The most effective intelligence agency that the US ever had was the Office of Strategic Services in WWII. Truman was so afraid of them that he had the organization disbanded and replaced by the CIA. We all know what the CIA morphed into after many years of congressional whining and meddling.

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    VIP Member Array raevan's Avatar
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    Cruiser +1. Yea there was also that new rule that stated "No criminals could be hired for undercover or infiltration of a criminal or terrorist orginizations". Which means that there could be no more "moles" hired because if they arn't already in side then they arn't getting in.

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    VIP Member Array ELCruisr's Avatar
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    Raevan, oh yeah, I remember when they passed that poorly considered mess. One analyst I knew was in shock. Where did they think all the really good human intel came from, Cinderella?
    If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. ~ Thomas J. Watson, Jr.

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    Senior Member Array Skygod's Avatar
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    Complexities of UW and FID

    "We'll never let you do that again" was a quote from an conventional forces General while speaking with members of the USASOC and USASFC. Gee, I wonder why ? Afghan was liberated with ease by small ODA's from the Army Special Forces Command without the need for conventional ground forces (with due credit to air power) and these same commanders we'rent getting their time on the playing field. SEALs were largely part of QRF forces and later DA (direct action) after Army Special Forces had conducted true FID operations with General Fahims militia to topple the Taliban Government and win back the real estate of Kabul and Kandahar from the Taliban and Al-Quaida insurgents.

    SEALs ? Rangers ? MARSOC ? Yes, all part of the SOF community, however none of them possess the true ability to conduct and forge foreign internal defense and unconventional warfare to it's deepest roots with the indigenous people of the host nation. How many languages do the Navy SEALs actually have the abiity to speak? Until recently the only SEAL Team with a language capability was ST-4 and their language is spanish. Not much use in the AO of the middle east when certain dialects of Farsi and Arabic are needed. The same holds true of Ranges and certainly MARSOC. It will be a while till these units are up to speed with Army Special Forces, at least in the area of UW and FID.

    The locals in Afghan are not that fond of men that cannot sleep, eat, **** and breath with them inside of an out post and talk their language. Why do you think even the Civil Affairs and Psyops units are not alway's all that welcome being attached to an ODA ? (CAT-A) The locals do not cherish the same relationship with Rangers and SEALs. They see them as gunslingers who shoot people in the face.

    As one of the new MARSOC guys what non-kinetic exploitive counter terrorism is and you'll get a blank look and stare. They'll turn around and just start shooting their M4 and ignore your question out of ignorance.
    Perhaps your sole purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others.

  13. #13
    Member Array paratroop23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skygod View Post
    "We'll never let you do that again" was a quote from an conventional forces General while speaking with members of the USASOC and USASFC. Gee, I wonder why ? Afghan was liberated with ease by small ODA's from the Army Special Forces Command without the need for conventional ground forces (with due credit to air power) and these same commanders we'rent getting their time on the playing field. SEALs were largely part of QRF forces and later DA (direct action) after Army Special Forces had conducted true FID operations with General Fahims militia to topple the Taliban Government and win back the real estate of Kabul and Kandahar from the Taliban and Al-Quaida insurgents.

    SEALs ? Rangers ? MARSOC ? Yes, all part of the SOF community, however none of them possess the true ability to conduct and forge foreign internal defense and unconventional warfare to it's deepest roots with the indigenous people of the host nation. How many languages do the Navy SEALs actually have the abiity to speak? Until recently the only SEAL Team with a language capability was ST-4 and their language is spanish. Not much use in the AO of the middle east when certain dialects of Farsi and Arabic are needed. The same holds true of Ranges and certainly MARSOC. It will be a while till these units are up to speed with Army Special Forces, at least in the area of UW and FID.

    The locals in Afghan are not that fond of men that cannot sleep, eat, **** and breath with them inside of an out post and talk their language. Why do you think even the Civil Affairs and Psyops units are not alway's all that welcome being attached to an ODA ? (CAT-A) The locals do not cherish the same relationship with Rangers and SEALs. They see them as gunslingers who shoot people in the face.

    As one of the new MARSOC guys what non-kinetic exploitive counter terrorism is and you'll get a blank look and stare. They'll turn around and just start shooting their M4 and ignore your question out of ignorance.
    PSYOP Soldiers (37F) all get language training! They learn at the same school the SF guys get trained at.

  14. #14
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    Of all the boards I didn't expect to see a "my SOF can beat up your SOF" thread on...

    Seriously, Army SF has an edge in languages, but they still don't have nearly enough Dari/Pashto/Arabic/Farsi speakers...no one does. The SF teams I worked with all had translators attached, same as everyone else. These are extremely hard languages for Germanic/Romance language speakers to learn, and it takes a long time to gain real proficiency. In the State Department (who have the most extensive and comprehensive language program in the world), the full Arabic curriculum is a two-year, full-time program. Serious commitment.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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