Police Raid Wrong Home, Kick Man In Groin

This is a discussion on Police Raid Wrong Home, Kick Man In Groin within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I can understand a mistake being made. What's appalling is the refusal to immediately issue an apology, that is what's inexcusable....

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  1. #16
    Member Array dls56's Avatar
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    I can understand a mistake being made. What's appalling is the refusal to immediately issue an apology, that is what's inexcusable.

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey View Post
    Where is there room for uncertainty? Has there not already been an admission that the warrant was served at the wrong location?

    That was either deliberate, or accidental. In either case, it is intolerable.

    I don't know what your point is. "Let's not rush to judgment"? It doesn't seem as though we're rushing to anything: the fact that the warrant was served at the wrong address is not in dispute. And if the article is to be believed, even when the warrant was served at the correct location, no contraband was found. So it begins to sound as though this was a double screwup.
    My point is this - there is a difference between a legitimate mistake made in good faith, and a mistake made due to negligence or malice. If you have never made a mistake in your life, then good for you, but I can't count myself in that category...

    I say don't rush to judge because we don't know the totality of the circumstances - we don't know why they were at the wrong house. Did somebody transcribe the numbers incorrectly in applying for the warrant? Did they get bad information from a CI? Did a radio call get garbled? My point is, we don't know, and the immediate calling for "heads to roll" is reactionary and emotional - exactly what we decry in the anti's and anyone else who calls for action without information.

    If there was negligence or lack of due dilligence, then punish those responsible. Until the truth is known, I for one won't throw any stones...
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  4. #18
    Senior Member Array Sig229's Avatar
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    Im not surprised at all that this happened in Maryland.
    In Baltimore City, Police are notorious for not "playing by the rules" (i.e. constitution)
    2 Years ago, the FBI started an investigation of Baltimore (Annapolis is only a 20min drive from B-moore) on how so many cases of people rights being violated.

    Even if a person lives in a ghetto, war torn neighborhood, dont they deserve the same rights as you or I?

    And to add my opinion on this case, nothing will happen to the APD. Nothing!
    They will simply pay for damages and medical expenses, and IF it is brought to a civil court proceeding there wont be enough "evidence" that these police officers were in the wrong.

    Dont get mad at me, I grew up in that Commie State. I know how they work.
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  5. #19
    Senior Member Array tanksoldier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    Where in the linked article does it say this was a no-knock? It seems every time there is a warrant service that has problems, people are screaming "no-knock!" This may or may not have been one - nothing in the original post indicates one or the other...
    Did they knock on the door, wait for someone to answer and tell them they had a warrant to search the premises and ask to be let in?

    Nope. At best it was Knock, "Police, search warrant!", BAM! Door won't open? Two flash-bangs. Guy standing up? Kick him in the nuts. Never mind deciding who is he, what is he doing, is he a threat? I kicked in a few doors in Iraq, and even there we didn't just start hitting or kicking people out of hand, just because they were standing there... and these weren't even US citizens.

    Occasionally the raid tactics are required, but I suspect that far more often they are not but used anyway. A search warrant does not give the police the right to destroy property out of hand or assault citizens who aren't presenting a threat... or at least it used to not give them that right.

    Cops aren't Soldiers, and they aren't fighting an enemy on the battlefield. They are dealing with citizens who are supposedly innocent until proven guilty. Cops are supposed to "Serve and Protect" the citizens, INCLUDING the suspect. I guess if you live in "the Hole", where ever that is for your area, that doesn't apply.
    Last edited by tanksoldier; June 10th, 2007 at 09:27 PM.
    "I am a Soldier. I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight." GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

  6. #20
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    OK, you're right. We don't need to have the facts, we don't need to presume that the cops are innocent until proven otherwise, we don't need to get our opinions clouded up with any pesky facts or anything.

    We'll just join hands with Frankenstein and Tonto - "Cops, baad..."
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array Sig 210's Avatar
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    Someone needs to be sued into workng at Burger King for a living.

  8. #22
    Senior Member Array tanksoldier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    OK, you're right. We don't need to have the facts, we don't need to presume that the cops are innocent until proven otherwise, we don't need to get our opinions clouded up with any pesky facts or anything.
    What facts don't we have? They raided the wrong address, they assaulted a citizen who at best was defending his home from an illegal invasion (and what he probably, and reasonably, thought was an invasion of his home by criminals if the area is as bad as was described above). At worst he was standing there doing nothing... AND when the correct address WAS finally searched, they didn't find anything there either, so it was all for nothing in the end.

    It would seem to me that if you're doing a "raid" style warrant search you would make doubly sure you're at the right place. It's a lot tougher to recover from a mistake in that situation than a simple "knock-on-the-door, talk-to-the-resident" type where they can just tell you that you have the wrong house.

    The only "facts" we need are exactly who screwed up, and how many people need to get fired.

    I'm not anti-cop and I realize it's a tough and thankless job... but they aren't supposed to be Soldiers, and they aren't supposed to be kicking in doors unless there is no alternative... and they're supposed to make darn sure it's the right door when they do.... AND they're supposed to have a sworn affidavit justifying the warrant and detailing why they believe criminal activity is taking place there, which in this case they were wrong about as well.
    "I am a Soldier. I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight." GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

  9. #23
    Senior Member Array Sig229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tanksoldier View Post
    What facts don't we have? They raided the wrong address, they assaulted a citizen who at best was defending his home from an illegal invasion (and what he probably, and reasonably, thought was an invasion of his home by criminals if the area is as bad as was described above). At worst he was standing there doing nothing... AND when the correct address WAS finally searched, they didn't find anything there either, so it was all for nothing in the end.

    It would seem to me that if you're doing a "raid" style warrant search you would make doubly sure you're at the right place. It's a lot tougher to recover from a mistake in that situation than a simple "knock-on-the-door, talk-to-the-resident" type where they can just tell you that you have the wrong house.

    The only "facts" we need are exactly who screwed up, and how many people need to get fired.

    I'm not anti-cop and I realize it's a tough and thankless job... but they aren't supposed to be Soldiers, and they aren't supposed to be kicking in doors unless there is no alternative... and they're supposed to make darn sure it's the right door when they do.... AND they're supposed to have a sworn affidavit justifying the warrant and detailing why they believe criminal activity is taking place there, which in this case they were wrong about as well.


    You said it brother!
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  10. #24
    Member Array Arisin Wind's Avatar
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    Here's more on this raid:


    Annapolis police investigate raid
    Moyer concedes mistake, says state capital still needs strong drug enforcement
    By Andrea F. Siegel
    sun reporter
    Originally published June 9, 2007
    While acknowledging that police made a mistake in bursting into the wrong apartment for a drug raid, Annapolis Mayor Ellen O. Moyer yesterday cautioned that the city needs to maintain aggressive drug enforcement.

    She said police are investigating the incident as well as their procedures "to assure that this kind of mistake does not happen again." The report is expected within two weeks.


    Though she declined to comment on Wednesday's incident until she sees the report, Moyer praised the department's efforts to combat drug use and dealing. The Annapolis Special Emergency Team has carried out 24 search warrants this year, and the department had made 177 drug-related arrests through May 31.

    Ensuring public safety is the city's goal, she said.

    "Citizens want a restored sense of personal and community security, peace of mind and they want to feel safe," she said.

    Members of the Police Department's special team sent to raid an apartment in the Spa Cove complex at 8:20 p.m. Wednesday broke open the door and threw in a percussion grenade. Once inside, the tenants said, the officers kicked a man in the groin, and handcuffed him and a woman.

    Police quickly realized they were at the wrong address. They were in Building 905, but were supposed to go to an apartment with the same number in Building 901. When they went to the correct apartment, nobody was there and no drugs were found, police said.

    Police said they could not speak to the residents' account of the raid.

    The residents' lawyers said three of the apartment's four occupants -- two Salvadoran immigrant couples with limited understanding of English -- were treated at a nearby hospital and released.

    In a statement read by Mary Schumaker, a past president of Centro de Ayuda, a nonprofit Hispanic assistance organization based in Annapolis, the couples' lawyers -- Carroll L. McCabe and Harry J. Trainor Jr. -- said one of the women has a heart problem and the other is four months' pregnant.

    The couples are no longer at that apartment, Trainor said.

    On Wednesday evening, one couple was at home preparing dinner when they heard the door being battered and thought the apartment was being burglarized, according to McCabe.

    They were about to call the police when the masked officers burst in with rifles drawn and threw a small grenade designed to startle and disorient, their lawyer said.

    Police said a woman had tried to barricade the door with her body.

    The second couple came upon the tumultuous scene as they returned home from grocery shopping, Schumaker said, adding that the officers apologized before leaving.

    "Sometimes it seems like we expect perfection from police, but they are people like the rest of us, and they make mistakes," said Frank C. Gray Jr., a Glen Burnie attorney who is not involved in this matter.

    Nevertheless, he said, if the couples were to seek compensation from the city, it could be for property damage, medical bills, lost wages and the like.

    andrea.siegel@baltsun.com

  11. #25
    Senior Member Array Sig229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arisin Wind View Post
    "Citizens want a restored sense of personal and community security, peace of mind and they want to feel safe," she said.

    Heaven forbid they actually could be safe, rather they just want to feeeeel safe.
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  12. #26
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    It seems that prep work wasn't done correctly, the went to the right apartment but the wrong Building. Poor site rec to me, at least the citizens will get the cities default cash settlement.

    I'm not talking about no-knock, or how they got the warrent. They went to the wrong address, the correct address was on the warrent, they went to the wrong apartment.
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

  13. #27
    Member Array Arisin Wind's Avatar
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    Here's an interesting link about police raids. It has an interactive map and info on police raids gone bad.

    http://www.cato.org/raidmap/

  14. #28
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    Sounds to me like they should have prepped better and made sure that they had the right house and a better plan then what they did.
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  15. #29
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arisin Wind View Post
    Here's an interesting link about police raids. It has an interactive map and info on police raids gone bad.

    http://www.cato.org/raidmap/
    I've seen the Cato map before- if one supposes that LE Administrators in shall-issue states recognize the higher probability that an officer(s) may be killed in an erroneous raid, its even more interesting. Lots of apparent corrleations that could be explored......

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by tanksoldier View Post
    What facts don't we have? They raided the wrong address, they assaulted a citizen who at best was defending his home from an illegal invasion (and what he probably, and reasonably, thought was an invasion of his home by criminals if the area is as bad as was described above). At worst he was standing there doing nothing... AND when the correct address WAS finally searched, they didn't find anything there either, so it was all for nothing in the end.
    We need ALL the facts (or at least as much as can be reasonably gathered) ALL the time. To make a judgement based on one preliminary news blurb is asinine at best, and this community - as full of "Main Stream Media" bashing as it is - should realize that.

    This was not an "illegal invasion," it was a mistake. The cops, acting in good faith with no malice, and with a duly appointed warrant, were in all likelihood not breaking any laws. It is not illegal to make a mistake. This phrase is unvarnished rhetoric, and nothing more. To the cops on the scene, they were being physically resisted while serving a high-risk warrant. This warrants (excuse the pun) appropriate force. For all the bluster and bravado on here about who would shoot whom for what reasons, it seems rather hypocritical to disparage a COP, on duty, serving a felony warrant, for using limited force to defend himself.

    The fact that there was nothing found at the correct address has absolutely nothing to do with the case at hand. I'd wager that there WERE drugs somewhere in that neighborhood - does that justify the raid any more than a lack of drugs in one apartment condemns it?


    It would seem to me that if you're doing a "raid" style warrant search you would make doubly sure you're at the right place. It's a lot tougher to recover from a mistake in that situation than a simple "knock-on-the-door, talk-to-the-resident" type where they can just tell you that you have the wrong house.
    Yes, they should have checked and double-checked the address. That is the one and only point here. I can’t defend this lapse – it was a mistake, pure and simple, and one that was avoidable. Now, let’s see you put your job (and freedom, according to some posters) on the line at your job every day for something as simple as misreading one number.


    The only "facts" we need are exactly who screwed up, and how many people need to get fired.
    This contradicts your “not anti-cop” stance, to some extent… It automatically assumes – based on nothing more than a preliminary report – that someone is guilty, and already adjudicates the punishment. I’m sorry, but I don’t make judgments of fact and of intent based on so little information.

    I'm not anti-cop and I realize it's a tough and thankless job... but they aren't supposed to be Soldiers, and they aren't supposed to be kicking in doors unless there is no alternative... and they're supposed to make darn sure it's the right door when they do.... AND they're supposed to have a sworn affidavit justifying the warrant and detailing why they believe criminal activity is taking place there, which in this case they were wrong about as well.
    I do not think that you are anti-cop, but it certainly doesn’t sound like you are willing to give them the simple benefits of the laws they serve each day. Laws like “innocent until proven guilty,” for instance. To be judge, jury, and executioner based on one news report is about as “anti” as they get…

    And, of course, they did have a warrant. If the warrant turns out to based on falsified or poorly documented info, then you may have a point. If the cops used excessive force (and it certainly doesn’t sound like it, based just on the two news items posted here), then criminal charges are in order. If it was simply the misreading of a number, I’d be hard pressed to fire one or more otherwise exemplary officers (assuming that this is the case) for what amounts to an honest, if unfortunate, mistake.

    All I can say in closing is this: there seems to be quite a few people here are very quick to make very severe judgments based on very little information. Putting aside this case for a moment, that’s simply a bad way to make decisions….
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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