A fence on the Southern border?
This is a discussion on A fence on the Southern border? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Why a fence?
I don't think we need a fence.....I want a wall. A big, brick wall. Not 100 miles or at just spots where ...
June 19th, 2007 10:21 PM
A fence on the Southern border?
Why a fence?
I don't think we need a fence.....I want a wall. A big, brick wall. Not 100 miles or at just spots where the illegals are crossing the most....along the entire border with Mexico and one along the border with Canada too.
The Chinese built a very impressive wall 5000 years ago. Surely we can build one at least as good now with all of our technology. I think every citizen should have to do a 2 year stint on the border patrolling the wall and securing our country.
It is time to get serious about the security of our borders and the security of our country or we will not have a country sooner than we can realize.
I voted for President Bush but I can tell you this...after his stand on this immigration bill that was recently shot down because of the outrage of the citizens of this fine country, I would never vote for him again. He talks about securing this country but at the same time he wants to let 12 million illegals become citizens with just a $5500 payment? That is not the thoughts or deeds of a leader who is serious about securing this country.
June 19th, 2007 10:21 PM
June 19th, 2007 10:45 PM
I was twice involved in a discussion about this very topic a while ago, the first in a Social Problems course in college (this last semester, fantastic class actually), and the second on an online forum.
While I try to be a humanitarian as much as I can, there exists too much evidence to support the fact that illegal immigration not only does no good for this country, but actually harms it. I know many immigrants, and among my circle of closest friends am one of two who is white, so I'm certainly not prejudiced against other cultures or races. But this has got to stop.
Here are the two ideas most heavily supported by two very different "camps."
1. Arming the Border
This is exactly as it sounds, and exactly as easy as it implies. Someone tries to come across the border, you turn them back or shoot them.
2. Securing the Border
This is my preferred method. Like Sig P239 suggested, I would propose erecting a massive barrier that extended no less than fifteen to twenty feet into the ground and was no shorter than fifteen feet above ground. Razor wire lines the exterior as further deterrent. My addition to this (I'll note that it seems to lack a lot of support or mention) is that we use echo-based detection machinery to completely destroy the underground tunnels that are everywhere along the U.S./Mexico border. All checkpoints would be manned and absolutely all persons passing through must do so with appropriate paperwork or be turned away, violently if necessary.
Coolest thing is, you can combine the two and create an even better barrier.
Personally, I'm for fortifying the barrier with both ideas. We do our part, then it'll be up to the Coast Guard to do their part, and maybe the Naval Militia (Texas's and California's) if they're even still around.
June 19th, 2007 10:50 PM
Problem with the Great Wall was that it was breached almost immediately upon completion. The invading armies bribed the guards to let them through.
Originally Posted by Sig P239
He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott
The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
June 19th, 2007 11:03 PM
They didn't have cameras watching them perform their duties did they? Another idea is to have web camera on that wall so all of us can watch to see if the guards are doing their jobs.
This can be done. And I am sick of hearing why it isn't being done. I want it done right now.
June 19th, 2007 11:32 PM
Sounds like a good idea to me so far...I'd even join up with the Boarder Patrol if I thought two things:
1) I'd do any good.
2) the Beaurocrats would back me when it came time to do something...
Firefighter / EMT - Always Ready. Ever Willing.
~Never do anything that you don't want to have to explain to the paramedics...~
June 19th, 2007 11:34 PM
It would probably be cheaper to just invade Mexico and stick an American flag up.
Then declare it an 'economic development zone' and offer the illegals all $500 if they come home and get jobs working in manufacturing for all the companies that want to go offshore. Offer the companies tax breaks - they love those - and then teach all the crackheads and methfreaks we already have how to operate a sit-in lawnmower or clean a grease trap. Then we're about set.
Oh and the drugs and terrorists coming in?
Use the whole stretch of what used to be the US/Mexico border as armed forces training grounds 200 miles wide, if you get past the grunts we call in an air strike.
And we still get change out of a trillion dollars to go get an ice cream
June 19th, 2007 11:47 PM
I want a double wall that goes down to bedrock on both borders. I agree it worked in China and the Fence in Israel is stopping a lot of attacks.
So I'm with you.
"[T]he people are not to be disarmed of their weapons.
They are left in full possession of them."
Zacharia Johnson (speech in the Virginia Ratifying Convention,25 June 1778)"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."
June 20th, 2007 12:25 AM
I too am all for securing the border, but I really think shooting up working folk up for trying to get a job is a bit too far. I think we need to expand LE's ability to apprehend illegals throughout the country, and sieze they're property, whether they're caught in the act of crossing or not. Eliminate any benefits that ought only be given citizens; driving, health care, education, etc. Also, we must require Mexico to foot the bill in some shape or form for deportation. If we can put economic pressure on Mexico to end the border problem, I doubt we'll have one for long. Just my .02
June 20th, 2007 01:10 AM
Fences do work...we have them around most of our prisons...
"That I cannot do."
"Give this to, uh, Clemenza. I want reliable people, people who aren't going to be carried away. After all we're not murderers in spite of what this undertaker thinks."
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member
June 20th, 2007 01:15 AM
Hire them to build most of it, start at the popular spots and work out from there, it does not have to be perfect, enough to make it difficult, also forcing Mexico to start helping it's citizens and offering a decent guest worker program will also reduce the flow.
June 20th, 2007 01:38 AM
The only guy in Washington that was absolutely unwavering on his stance concerning illegal immigration was Rick Santorum and he was willing to back it up with everything that he had in him.
He told the truth...he was an honest man with strong personal convictions.
He did not just tell people what he thought they wanted to hear so that he could get re-elected.
He always only ever told the truth as he saw it.
Well, now he's out of a job.
This (below) was his stance on illegal immigration.
It is one of the issues that he ran on.
He is a great guy. I plugged hard for him but sadly he lost.
Santorum opposes the current Senate proposal that addresses illegal immigration.
Instead, Santorum believes that the US should first act to enforce currently existing laws.
He has openly stated his strong opposition to amnesty for illegal immigrants.
He supports the construction of a barrier along the U.S.-Mexican border, an increase in the number of border patrol agents on the border, and the stationing of National Guard troops along the border. He also believes that illegal immigrants should be deported immediately when they commit crimes, and that illegal immigrants should not receive benefits from the government.
Finally, the former senator believes that English should be established as the national language in the United States.
Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ
June 20th, 2007 01:58 AM
Why a fence? Because it is easier to shoot through it if someone tries to destroy it thats why.
Besides the fence proposed is not your standard fence.
Coming from the Mexican side:
First you go down an 8 foot ditch, level with the top of the ditch is the base of the fence (built into a concrete foundation)
Second the fence is about 15 feet high, with 3 feet of razor or barbed wire loops. Also the fence is not on a 90 degree axis but closer to 70 degrees leaning in towards Mexico.
Third, to make it through that fence you will have to avoid the cameras, and the sensing equipment used to tell if there is extra stress on the fence (or lack thereof from it being cut or destroyed)
Once past that fence you must cross a road that is used for patrols.
On the other side of that road is another fence, almost the same as the first, except a bit higher, and sitting on top of a larger hill to increase the difficulty even more.
Add some standard street lamps, and an improved border station distance of about 1 every 10 minutes away or so and you have a not too shabby set up.
Now if we could only stop prosecuting the border patrol that do their jobs and we would be golden.
Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.
June 20th, 2007 02:15 AM
That fence doesn't sound too bad. But I would still rather have a solid wall. I just like the secure feeling that a wall fit for a fort wall would give us.
I also agree about not prosecuting the Border Patrol Agents. I have read a few articles recently and it makes me wonder why anyone would want to join that agency.
But, honestly, I think our President wants the US, Mexico and Canada to form a North American Union much like the Europeans have done across the pond. No national borders, once single currency and and amalgamation of the laws of each country. I believe we are the only country of the 3 that isn't gun hating.
I don't know about anyone else, but if this were ever to become a reality, I would surely be willing to fight this in any way we had to. Up to and including a second Civil War if it came to that.
Maybe I sound like a Kook, but that is really the way I feel. I feel like this President is selling us out. He wants to give citizenship away to illegal aliens, a great many of whom are criminals and I just can't stand it.
I am very worried about the future of this great nation.
June 20th, 2007 11:11 AM
June 20th, 2007 11:42 AM
Fences and walls are all good ideas. They are only part of the solution, however. Other options need exploring, including: severe penalties for employers and local governments (city, county, and state) that do not support illegal immigration measures, draconion laws for illegals that make it through any barriers. The intent of the draconion laws is to make it extremely unpallatable to be in this country illegally by have high fines and lengthy prison sentences followed by deportation. And, finally, we need to streamline legal immigration to get the people and families in that we really need to make our country a better place.
"Use enough gun." - Robert Ruark
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