ATF Ignored Addresses for gun purchases

ATF Ignored Addresses for gun purchases

This is a discussion on ATF Ignored Addresses for gun purchases within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I recall when this was going on in Richmond. It was not a simple verification of someone's address. They were going to neighbor's homes and ...

Results 1 to 5 of 5

Thread: ATF Ignored Addresses for gun purchases

  1. #1
    VIP Member
    Array Scott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The Old Dominion
    Posts
    5,050

    ATF Ignored Addresses for gun purchases

    I recall when this was going on in Richmond. It was not a simple verification of someone's address. They were going to neighbor's homes and asking them if they knew so and so was buying a gun at the gun show. Same with family members that were at the listed residence.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070702/.../atf_gun_shows

    Audit: ATF ignored some gun buyer checks

    By LARA JAKES JORDAN, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 18 minutes ago

    WASHINGTON - The ATF no longer routinely checks addresses of some buyers at gun shows after being accused of chilling sales at one show in 2005, the Justice Department reported Monday.

    But the checks were part of ATF gun show investigations that appear to have been warranted, the 56-page report by Justice Department Inspector General Glenn A. Fine concluded.

    "We found that ATF's decisions to conduct investigative operations, including those in the Richmond area, were based on significant law enforcement intelligence from a variety of sources indicating that illegal activity was occurring or was about to occur at a specific gun show," the report concluded.

    An ATF spokesman agreed with the report's findings, calling it "an objective assessment of ATF's investigative operations at gun shows."

    The so-called blanket residency checks sought to verify addresses for gun show buyers living in certain targeted areas. They were conducted mostly by agents from the Washington field office of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. That office also handles investigations in parts of Virginia, including Richmond.

    The ATF abandoned the checks five months after dealers at an August 2005 gun show in Richmond said sales plummeted from buyers being intimidated by police showing up at their homes sparking congressional criticism.

    A January 2006 memo from ATF headquarters advised agents against conducting residence checks "without reasonable suspicion that criminal violations may exist," the report noted.

    Moreover, the U.S. attorney's office in Alexandria, Va., found the checks "were resource-intensive and rarely resulted in prosecutions for only providing a false address on federal firearms transaction documents."

    Fine's report found the residency checks were part of ATF investigations at 195 gun shows nationwide that netted 121 arrests between 2004 and 2006. Of those arrests, 27 were conducted by the bureau's Washington field office. No other ATF office except Houston also with 27 netted as many arrests, the report showed.

    Congress is considering giving local police easier access to gun-purchasing data to track down illegal firearms over objections of the National Rifle Association, which says doing so would violate privacy rights.

    The Senate is considering the provision as part of ATF's budget, and so far it has not been included in House-approved legislation to fix the national gun background check system that allowed a Virginia Tech student who killed 32 others to buy guns despite diagnosed mental health problems.

    The NRA did not immediately return a call for comment.

    Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, said studies show that as many as 40 percent of firearms sold at gun shows do not involve background checks.

    "When there are no background checks, it's a lot easier for someone like the Virginia Tech killer to get guns," Helmke said. "We want to help ATF do its job, and we're glad to see that the inspector general is backing them up in their attempts in the past to crack down on illegal guns."

    Monday's report found that ATF has "no specific enforcement programs" that target gun shows. It concluded that ATF runs investigations at only a small number of shows, and usually only when agents have a reason to do so.

    Between 2,000 and 5,200 gun shows are held in the United States annually.

    ___

    On the Net:

    The Justice Department audit can be found at: http://www.usdoj.gov/oig/reports/ATF/e0707/final.pdf
    Procrastinators are the leaders of tomorrow.


  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array Chooie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    1,870
    Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, said studies show that as many as 40 percent of firearms sold at gun shows do not involve background checks.

    "When there are no background checks, it's a lot easier for someone like the Virginia Tech killer to get guns," Helmke said. "We want to help ATF do its job, and we're glad to see that the inspector general is backing them up in their attempts in the past to crack down on illegal guns."
    It's a safe bet to say that "40%" of the sales he is talking about DIDN'T OCCUR at a gun show, but out in the parking lot. No dealer in his right mind is going to risk imprisonment and loss of license by not running NICS at a show, especially with ATF and state police present. Of course, the Brady people KNOW that. They're betting on the naivety of the great unwashed to fall into line and get their way.

  3. #3
    Ex Member Array Pete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,570
    The VT shooter passed background checks, he bought his guns in a store.
    They are trying to associate him with Gun Shows in their latest attempt of demonizing them. When this doesn't work they will go back to saying that .50 cals shoot planes down and FiveseveNs were specifically designed to shoot LEOs.

  4. #4
    VIP Member
    Array goawayfarm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Fork Union, Virginia
    Posts
    2,699
    Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, said studies show that as many as 40 percent of firearms sold at gun shows do not involve background checks.
    That is a LIE! Anybody that goes to a gun show would also tell you that's a lie. I could believe that 40% of sales at a gunshow were done by 'unlicensed' dealers......people who are NOT selling firearms!

    Here we go with the 'Gunshow Loophole' garbage.............

    There is NO such thing as a GUNSHOW LOOPHOLE!

    Regarding the original post referencing the BATFE abuses.......their shenanigans were NOT appreciated.

    I go to all the gun shows in Richmond, Va & I attended the ones that were mentioned in the article. My wife & I were always seeing plain clothed LEOs (BATFE) making arrests when a prohibited person attempted to buy illegally. These were mostly felons trying to buy a firearm & the 'instant' NICS check flagged them. All arrests on site were handled without violence. (Guess what? the law WORKS!)

    The ABUSES were when some people who passed the NICS check were further 'inspected'. At the Richmond shows, the promoter has an office setup, to allow the FFL dealers onsite to use their computer system to access the Va State Police system. The FFL sellers use the system to perform the 'instant check.....That's what led up to the problems with the BATFE.

    Due to the BATFE being onsite, the agents ILLEGALLY intercepted the firearms forms that came in to be being 'instant checked'. The would look at the address & dispatch county & city police to the addresses, to check that it was a valid address..........BUT it didn't stop with just a check of residence. The LEOs then would ask whoever answered if they knew that Mr X was at a gun show buying a gun! If no one answered at the residence, they would then proceed to the neighbors & ask them if they knew Mr X was at a gun show buying a gun!

    The BATFE has lost all respect with me. There are numerous times, numerous articles & numerous websites that deal with their abuse. They seem to concentrate on lLLEGAL FFL holders paperwork mistakes, instead of prosecuting the felon caught with an ILLEGAL weapon. Don't believe me? Just try & find ANY stories on a felon who used a firearm to commit a crime who was ALSO CHARGED WITH A FEDERAL FIREARMS CRIME!

    Now back to the 'Gun show loophole' garbage: You hear the Brady camp using that phrase at every opportunity. They make the general public believe that there are unlicensed dealers selling illegal guns at gun shows....THAT'S NOT TRUE!

    Are there dealers who do not have FFLs at guns shows....YES!...They could be selling knives, bags, surplus gear, tools...etc......EVEN BEEF JERKY!

    Are there people who have booths or tables at these shows who are selling firearms without an FFL....YES, there are.....not many but there are a few. This category is made up of people like you & me who wish to sell some firearms from their PERSONAL COLLECTION. These people are not in it as a business, they are just every day ordinary people like you & me who want to sell some their own firearms.......& guess what? IT'S PERFECTLY LEGAL! It is no different than DC.com's buy & sell area, where a face-to-face sale takes place. No federal forms are required & IT'S LEGAL!

    Sorry for the rant, but I'm sick of hearing about the 'gunshow loophole' & the crap that the BATFE has done.

    (Another example of BATFE abuse was when a micro brewery was nearly shutdown. The reason was the background color of a beer bottle label was a different shade of green than the BATFE example. So they cause a small business owner grief over a color! That to me is not a good enough reason to trample over anybodys business.)
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

  5. #5
    VIP Member
    Array goawayfarm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Fork Union, Virginia
    Posts
    2,699
    http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2007/07/post-11.html

    Sellers at gun shows can skirt background checks


    This is a good response from VCDL's P VanCleave:
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/200...reisnoloophole


    Opposing view: There is no loophole
    By Philip Van Cleave

    Let's be clear about gun shows: There is nothing that can be done at a gun show that cannot be done legally outside of a gun show.

    The terms "gun show loophole" and "unlicensed gun dealer" are fabricated to mislead the public into thinking that gun shows permit gun sales that would be forbidden anywhere else. The intent of this scheme is to villainize gun shows, making the public more receptive to additional restrictions.

    This is just the first step in a "private gun-sale registration" scheme.

    Gun banners know they must take small steps, placing more and more hurdles to gun ownership so that fewer law abiding citizens will go to the trouble of purchasing a firearm.

    None of the hurdles would affect criminals. According to a 2001 U.S. Department of Justice report, only 0.7% of criminals got their guns from shows.

    A gun purchased from a dealer at a gun show requires the same background check as a gun purchased at the dealer's store. No loophole.

    In most states, a gun purchased from a person's private collection requires no background check, whether purchased at a gun show or at someone's home. Again, no loophole.

    A gun is like any other private property: It's yours to sell whenever you wish.

    Of course, gun banners would call you an "unlicensed gun dealer."

    Hogwash. Does selling your personal car make you an "unlicensed car dealer?"

    Gun banners want to force dealers to do background checks on private sales. That would put a heavy burden on dealers who must keep the paperwork for decades and delay their own sales while running those checks. That would drive up the cost of buying a gun, creating another hurdle for the prospective law abiding purchaser.

    Of course, closing the imaginary "gun show loophole" is only the first step. Gun banners will then say that since private sales are not allowed at gun shows, the "home gun-sale loophole" must be closed.

    Ultimately, complete gun registration is the goal. Where there is registration, there is confiscation, as gun owners in California, Illinois, New York and Washington, D.C., learned when authorities confiscated guns that were banned after the owner had bought and registered them.

    Philip Van Cleave is president of the Virginia Citizens Defense League (www.vcdl.org), a gun rights group.
    I just wished he had used something other than 'Does selling your personal car make you an "unlicensed car dealer?'.
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Utah Legislation addresses brandishing of guns
    By Plop in forum The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: February 4th, 2010, 02:50 AM
  2. Job seekers beware of gmail addresses on Craig's List
    By Arko in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: July 24th, 2009, 03:22 PM
  3. The Post-Star addresses pistol permit controversy
    By mrreynolds in forum The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: February 5th, 2008, 03:26 AM
  4. Hillary addresses American Indians
    By P95Carry in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: April 27th, 2005, 11:15 AM

Search tags for this page

atf joe arko

,

atf student gun purchase address

Click on a term to search for related topics.