OK, So What DO We DO???

OK, So What DO We DO???

This is a discussion on OK, So What DO We DO??? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I don't want to turn this into another Nat. ID card debate. We already have one of those threads going. I mostly just want to ...

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Thread: OK, So What DO We DO???

  1. #1
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    Question Tracking The America Haters

    I don't want to turn this into another Nat. ID card debate.
    We already have one of those threads going.
    I mostly just want to say this and then end with a couple of questions.
    The World Trade Center Attack ~ The Hijacked jet in PA. ~ The Sniper Incident ~ & the Anthrax Mailings were acts that were all committed by a tiny handful of actual perpetrators.
    Those few terror attacks on our country had a STAGGERING, lingering, and almost incalculable effect on the United States. I don't think there is any way to actually "total up" the true damage that was done to the U.S.of A.
    Our GNP was severely affected. - The Airline industry went down the tubes - People were afraid to go out and go to work. - The hotel industry suffered - The rental car industry suffered - The trucking industry took a huge hit. - Mail delivery was all screwed up. - People were afraid to go buy gas.
    We don't even KNOW how many tourists and their vacation dollars stopped coming into the United States because they were afraid to fly or visit here. They still ARE.
    The psychological impact on ordinary people was horrific.
    People stopped going to the malls & out to eat and adults were surrounding groups of children forming "protective pods" when walking them from one place to another.
    Executives moved their corporate offices out of the top floors of High Rise office buildings. Increased heightened security EVERYWHERE. The total revamping of the security factions of our government. Buildings locked down. Highways closed. Endless checkpoints. Delays. Interstate travel to visit all of our historic landmarks was kaput. People didn't go to Washington, DC
    The list goes on and on and on.
    The tentacles of those specific acts snaked their way into every little area of our lives.
    That continues right up until today.
    Yesterday roads were closed in downtown Pittsburgh & choppers were flying overhead...police cars were everywhere...the bomb squad was called in... all because somebody threw a knapsack into a trash can near Heinz Field.
    Look at the total havoc and confusion and disruption of "daily activity" and "mass hysteria" that was caused just by two idiots that hated Americans coupled with one clunker vehicle (with a half~assed modified trunk) and a rifle!
    I have no absolutely idea how many potential "planted" pods of terrorists are already living inside this country. How many people already live here and despise America enough to be easily swayed to commit a random "Act Of Terror" with only slight provocation? Nobody Knows.
    I can only guess that there are FAR MORE than 25 or 30 of them.
    Maybe there are thousands of them and probably (at the very least) hundreds of them. We honestly DON'T know!
    These "people" are the true enemy of our "Freedom" because they affect everything that is good and sacred about the idea of freedom.
    They have already infiltrated and "blended in" and are waiting for the ideal time to inflict as much damage to America and American citizens as possible.
    I don't want America to end up like Israel...where we all just put on the news to find out what "suicide bomber" just blew up which exact busload of innocent people or what nightclub just got blown to smithereens or how many kids just got shot in their school playground yesterday. I don't want us to have teams of volunteers "at the ready" who jump into special trucks to hurry up and go "clean up" aftermath scattered body parts and then quickly hose and scrub down the blood off the streets.
    I don't know about you folks but, I WANT our government to know WHO these people are and WHERE they are...and what "known" Terror and Radical groups they might be associated with.
    I want us to know about them and where their money is coming from and I personally want them to be able to be SOMEHOW tracked.
    We already know that they are here. That's a "given" and it's a known fact that the only way to even begin to locate these sorts of people is through intelligence gathering.
    So...COMPLETELY FORGETTING ABOUT National ID Cards...
    How do we find them and then how do we keep track of their whereabouts and their activities?
    I'm not talking about tightening up our borders...what about the ones that are already here? Do we just wait until they blow something up and then try to find them?
    Last edited by QKShooter; May 14th, 2005 at 02:54 PM. Reason: Addition


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    At the simplest level QK most of us honestly have no ideal how. I am not a Special Forces operative. I have no idea how they find these people. I don't know how the CIA works.

    But the fact is, we have people that DO know. We don't support them enough. We spend all our tax money on regulating what features your car can or can't have, we spend it on paying for school administrators to oversee children with mild symptoms of ADHD, and we spend it on regulating the heck out of everything.

    We redirect the funds. For instance, let's say the state of Texas stops requiring extensive background checks for CHLs and makes it like a hunting permit. You simply swear that your are legally qualified to have a CHL under penalty of perjury, you pay for it, and it's yours. Instead of wasting that money on keeping this huge registry going, they could then instead give use it to help fight the tide of illegal immigration. Then down the line you just pass a law that says anyone legally qualified to own a gun can carry a gun in the state and stop the whole thing entirely. Save the overhead costs.

    We stop requiring the government inspect our socks. We remove all the useless expensive bureaucracy in place that's not a legitimate function of government anyway. Rewrite the tax laws in such a way that individuals must either put their Social Security contribution in a qualifiying private account or just plain lose it. Then later on down the road get rid of the requirement altogether. Save the overhead costs again.

    And so on and so on. Get rid of all this fluff stuff that simply shouldn't exist in the first place and use the money to fight terrorism. We don't need little plastic cards. We need soldiers and intelligence operatives and more men on the street. Any terrorist is just going to work outside the system anyway.

  3. #3
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    So...COMPLETELY FORGETTING ABOUT National ID Cards...
    How do we find them and then how do we keep track of their whereabouts and their activities?
    Actually you don't! I think people tend to forget that the definition of "terror" is doing the unexpected.

    People also think this is something new, well when I was in the security "business" during the bicentennial we'd get about 3 new threat warnings a week. They just never panned out.

    One of the problems we do have is we want the security without giving up any of or "rights", I'm not sure that is a realistic possibility. But this should make for an interesting thread.
    Rick

    EOD - Initial success or total failure

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    Those who would forsake liberty for safety have neither.

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    You can never defend against a terrorist type attack. The things it would take to attempt to defend against terrorist attacks would mean that the terrorists have won. Personally I think we have already gone to far after 9/11. BTW standardized ID is something we should have in this country. Along with national CCW and a few other things. However, what is tied to that ID, aside from identifying you, should have strict limits.

    Eucliden I believe you paraphrased this quote.

    "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

    This is a quote widely attributed to Ben Franklin, who actually wrote a letter to David Hume denying that he wrote it. The quote appeared in a letter from the Assembly to the Governor of Pennsylvania while Franklin was in England in 1755. It was subsequently attributed to Franklin after his death with the release of a book that Franklin published in 1759 that included the quote on its title page. The book was titled "Historical Review of the Constitution and Government of Pennsylvania from its Origin"

    No matter who wrote the original quote, it still rings true today.

    -Scott-

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    ya cant period there will always be someone who with do something to terrorize someone ... Think about it if you want to strech it son of sam was a terriorst so was the manson family they just call them Serial killers... but in fact arent they Terriorst's?

  7. #7
    Member Array Deke45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euclidean
    We spend all our tax money on regulating what features your car can or can't have, we spend it on paying for school administrators to oversee children with mild symptoms of ADHD, and we spend it on regulating the heck out of everything.

    Get rid of all this fluff stuff that simply shouldn't exist in the first place and use the money to fight terrorism. We don't need little plastic cards. We need soldiers and intelligence operatives and more men on the street. Any terrorist is just going to work outside the system anyway.
    And don't forget the Mega Billions we spend on foreign aid. We give more money to other countries then all the other countries combined. As a taxpayer, I'm appalled and despondent at the amount of money we throw around the world....then we hear from Washington that we can't control our own borders cause we don't have enough money to fund such undertakings. What a crock of BS.

    I do think border security is our #1 issue when it comes to Homeland Security. And the Bush Administrations current policies on illegals are unacceptable with an estimated 1000+ crossing into the U.S. every month. I believe I heard just yesterday that congress approved a billion dollars to pay for medical care for illegal aliens...this pisses me off to no end.

    I've seen footage of INS agents in some of the southern border areas buying one way bus tickets for captured illegals (with taxpayer money of course), not back to Mexico, but to other cities in the U.S. What's up with that practice...once they get on the bus, they get "lost" in our country....this stunned me to find out that this was happening.

    While true you may never really prepare for a terrorist attack, I can't see the logic behind holding the door open for them to walk right in to the country. How do we find them and then how do we keep track of their whereabouts and their activities? Tough issue to solve considering we perpetuate the problem, BUT, if they are in Mexico or wherever else they come from I don't care where they are!

    Deke steps down off of his soapbox for a breather!

    Kimber Ultra CDP Elite STS II

    A gun is a tool...the real weapon is between your ears!

  8. #8
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    It's almost a lose-lose - we lose freedoms when ''security'' is tightened and we lose also thru the terrorist ''threat'' - whether tangible or imagined. This is what makes terrorism so darned effective, the ''not knowing'' and so for many a fear instilled - exactly what the bad guys want. Oh yeah and the ''open borders'' deal - better not go that route right now!!

    So much so that even thru long periods of inaction, they must be rubbing hands together as they watch ever more stringent restrictions go into place - screwing nicely with Joe Sixpack's way of life, then too they must enjoy seeing the public's fear factor too at times. Sure, most folks ''get on with life'' - have to - but the fear can still be there.

    It is all but impossible IMO to find them and weed them out. The best organized probably have a very complex cell structure, no avenues of tracability thru more than one level. Remember too as I have mentioned before - the best con man is the one who seems normal in all things - so much so he is probably seen as ''the nice guy next door''. Same with the most effective terrorists - they are so good at their ''trade'' they can lose themselves in society.

    Think too - of weapons, and counter measures etc - for every advance in one area, a counter will be produced in another. These guys can probably find a way round almost any security devised - and all the control of us and our travel and way of life, will do little to stop the determined approach.

    One major event - like 9/11 and they don't need to do much more for ages - they have instilled their terror and can then trade on it - just be miniscule threats and perhaps even minor ''events'' - all the while watching gleefully as folk's lifestyles get screwed.

    Perhaps it can be just the few ''long shots'' from agencies that net a small catch - maybe too, idle talk gets a few taken out - overall tho I doubt anything will ever do more than scratch the surface. It is this that makes terrorism so damned effective... the itch that can hardly be scratched.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  9. #9
    Former Member Array The Tourist's Avatar
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    I'm doing the same thing I did about disco dancing and political correctness.

    I ignore it.

    I can hear some of you say, "Well, there's a fine ostrich like way of handling problems." And the answer is, yes, it is.

    My character and my position on politics was established years ago. It works fine. If PETA came into a mall where I was shopping, who would get splattered with red paint? Would it hit the fur coat of a little old lady or my leather jacket? And why?

    I believe that you can pretty much do what you want in America, as long as the rights and privileges of ours are respected.

    You can read the Qoran until 3:00AM in the morning for all I care. You and your lesbian lover can adopt six Laotian children and go to war with the Florida State government--send me a post card. You can even petition my state government to reinstate the helmet law. I'm dying to read your 'letters to the editor.' Good humor is so hard to find.

    Now, the dirty end of the stick. You and your Qoran had better not hold classes on my lawn. You and lesbian lover should know in advance that I have personal, spiritual and moral opinions and just as much right to express in any legal venue and in the voting booth.

    As for you helmet buffs, well, ABATE and about six other freedom organizations are going to spend you into poverty in congress and in the press. Packs of lawyers are going to hustle your raggety ass into court so much you'll qualify for discount parking. We'll do anything and everything to screw your whiny ass back into those chess clubs where you belong--just like the last time.

    I'm a peacable man, I teach, live and yearn for avoidance in my life, and I recommend that you do the same. Give everyone the benefit of the doubt. Seek policies that give both sides a chance to enjoy life.

    That is, until they fukk with your freedom.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array Prospector's Avatar
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    I'm sure I'll catch heat on this one, but not being a "politically correct" individual, I say bug/video surveill every Mosque in the country as a starter. Put a Santa's list together to see who's naughty or nice! I'm so tired of the the abuse, some matronly old lady with freckles gets as she's given the ole wand treatment at airport security....give me a break!! Yup, you can bet those bozos are here and planning the next episode, but in the mean time they are blending in....and being good religious fanatics, they're gonna go congregate at the Mosque. Don't get me wrong, there are good and bad in all faiths....all I'm saying is we can delete all but one for suspicion of harboring terrorists.
    "Endeavor To Persevere"
    Chief Dan George

  11. #11
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    Just a Thought

    There is a possibility that our Right To Keep & Bear Arms will be most threatened at some future point in time with a Lib Left Dem POTUS coupled with simultaneous or maybe multiple orchestrated terrible terror attacks using firearms.
    The majority of people/sheeple will probably then scream, holler, beg, and cry for extremely restrictive gun control measures to be put into place a la Australia & Great Britain and the House & Senate might cave in and "amend" our amendment as per The Will Of The People.
    That is one reason why I think we really need some sort of workable method of finding these people ASAP.
    Even then I don't think there would be any outright confiscation here in the US but, some measure might be put into play that would begin to "Grandfather Out" firearms through attrition.
    I'll probably be "pushing up daisies" by then.

  12. #12
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    QK - one thing I do not anticipate with any pleasure - is the possible/probable even - declaration of martial law following something really big going down.

    We could if I am not mistaken - be effectively ''constitutionless'' and under a control so harsh, that ''shot on sight'' could have two very different rings to it. Something that I would not relish, which could if imagination allowed free reign - be the start of something no one wants to see. That would actually be just what terrorists want ... societal collapse.

    OK so - I am feeling pessimistic today!
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  13. #13
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    P95Carry

    This is slightly "Off Topic" and is not intended to make light of your post at all but, your "declaration of martial law" (for some weird reason) reminded me of
    "The Big" ~ "Toilet Paper Scare"
    Do you remember that?
    Where people went bonkers "hoarding up" & in some parts of the country were actually "going to blows" over fighting for remaining rolls of doggone "T" Paper??

    What really kills me about that was that NOBODY ran over and grabbed any boxes of Kleenex off the shelves which would have served exactly the same "necessary function" in a pinch!

    What about those Berserk Moms ready to kill over Cabbage Patch Dolls at X~Mas Time????
    Remember that one too? Not enough Cabbage Patch Dolls To Go Around. "Well, MY Kid IS Getting One...even if I hafta knock people over & STEP ON SOMEBODYS FACE to grab one!"


    So "Martial Law" might be a very real possibility if something really serious like the supermarket food trucks ever quit rolling in for about only 3 days.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    QK:

    I like zombie movies. They genuinely do scare the heck out of me.

    Why? Because our consumer society has the potential to turn into that almost instantly. One little thing goes wrong and bam, real "zombies".

  15. #15
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    "The Big" ~ "Toilet Paper Scare"
    Bwhahaha - oh yeah - right on!!!

    I may sound awful tin-foil re mentioning martial law deal but - in extremis GOP ''could'' - with the powers available within Pat Act II (not to mention FEMA's true powers) ... make things pretty ''sticky''.

    I just work on the basis (as a fully paid up cynic) that unless something can be proven to be totally impossible, then for me it remains in the category of ''possible'' - and as such I tend to give it consideration, however extreme it may seem. Anyways - I am too old to worried about being seen as a joke at times - so I go on my merry way!

    Think of Murphy too - (bastage!!) - ''Whatever can go wrong - will go wrong"!.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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