What do LEOs really think?

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Thread: What do LEOs really think?

  1. #1
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    What do LEOs really think?

    Sorry if this subject has been discussed before and I just missed it. Mods feel free to delete or move it if you feel I am resurrecting the beating of a dead horse.

    Here goes:

    Lately there have been many posts citing the "official" position of law enforcement agencies regarding the importance of citizens using 911 instead of resorting to defending themselves with guns. I have heard the explanation that the real reason, not publicly stated, is fear of lawsuits against any officer, or agency, that suggests a firearm could save innocent victim's lives when they are confronted with criminal assault. I know that in our litigious society many such lawsuits would be the case. However, I wonder whether the LEOs that frequent this website truly believe that we non-LEOs stand a better chance of survival if we follow the "official" recommendation?
    "Society never advances. It recedes as fast on one side as it gains on the other. It undergoes continual change; but this change is not [an improvement]. For everything that is given, something is taken."
    Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    Not on your life or mine. You got to do what you got to do and you're the only one who is going to do it. You can't count on me (an leo) to be right there when needed. I'd like to be, but its foolish to think that I can be.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    If you are fear for your life, defend yourself by any means at your disposal. IMO, you will be much more successful in that defense if you are prepared, trained, and equiped properly. The LEO community is pretty good at catching criminals after the fact, but there simply aren't enough of us (and never could be) to prevent most crimes. Individual responsibility is the watchword.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Not on your life or mine. You got to do what you got to do and you're the only one who is going to do it. You can't count on me (an leo) to be right there when needed. I'd like to be, but its foolish to think that I can be.
    YEP.
    "A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on."
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    VIP Member Array semperfi.45's Avatar
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    My agency doesn't take this position. If you have the time 911 can be a great supplement to your defense but not a replacement. It gets additional help coming your way and it can serve as a recording of the event, if needed. I am more likely to (if I have the time) dial 911 and leave an open line than to stay on it while I address my threat/situation.
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    It's been a long time since i served as a LEO. But i remember this, We
    know we can't save the world, But will sure as hell try!, And then go home and try to live a socalled Normal Life.
    quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

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    Member Array Ten_Ring's Avatar
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    By all means call 911 if you have time, that way you have a documented recording of everything that happened. It "WILL" help if there is any questions by the DA regarding a justifiable shoot. It will also make it known you "tried" to avoid a confrontation.
    http://www.odmp.org/

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    However, I wonder whether the LEOs that frequent this website truly believe that we non-LEOs stand a better chance of survival if we follow the "official" recommendation
    I'm only a "Part Time" LEO, so I'll have to give you are "part time" opinion.

    If you follow the "official recommendation" and choose to put the responsibility of protecting yourself and your family in someone else's hands that could care less if you live or die...

    then you deserve whatever happens to you.

    If someone wants to kill you, smashes down your door,enters into your house and attempts to kill you and you follow what you have been told, you will die.

    Dialing 911 would however,if you have the time to do so,may allow the jury to hear the agonizing screams of you and your family in the act of dieing in court IF the perp is ever caught and it might persuade the jury to convict, IF the felon hasn't hired a slick talking lawyer.

    Personally, I think that any LEO that advocates being a victim should be imprisoned for life if someone dies as a result of an "official recommendation" that advises to remain helpless and defenseless and let the "law" take care of the problem.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    Member Array Ten_Ring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    If someone wants to kill you, smashes down your door,enters into your house and attempts to kill you and you follow what you have been told, you will die.
    Ya know..... some common sense is required when deciding to dial 911. If you're in your room... you hear a break in....call 911 if you have time. If you're on your couch watching T.V. and the door is busted down 10 feet from you... shoot if you have time..... then call 911......
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    On the other hand...

    anyone that would take the "official" advice of a police chief spurting out trash on TV or in the local paper probably isnt equipped to shoot someone.

    More than likely they have neither the mindset or the tools to win.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  12. #11
    Senior Member Array Sig229's Avatar
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    many people think the Police main job is to protect the citizens.
    That is totally wrong.
    Sure, if your walking down the street and getting beat up, the LEO will stop and end the fight.
    But the only job of a LEO is enforcing laws. NOT protecting people.

    And please dont retort with "But what about "Protect and Serve"!
    "Protect and Serve" is just an agencies motto thats written on a decal on a side of a car door. Its NOT a law.
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    The Supreme Court has already ruled on this issue, years ago in fact.

    Law Enforcement Agencies have "No duty to protect any one individual, only society as a whole." In short, you are responsible for your own safety and protection.

    Biker

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    Thanks to everyone, especially the LEOs and former LEOs, who responded to my question. I think we non-LEOs all knew that if the question was presented to those who go in harms way and put their lives on the line everyday the answer would be different than if directed at the agency or department level.

    The similarities of police and military are many. One of the most common is that the farther up the chain of command you go the more political, distorted, and convoluted the thought process becomes. Sadly, people who hang on every word that their police chief or sheriff utters are done a disservice when they are told that to ensure their safety they should not fight back, but do everything the criminal says.

    I would like to hope that one day facts and knowledge will overcome such fantasy inspired advice. In truth, when confronted with criminal assault, we are responsible for our own safety and should be prepared to defend ourselves with any means available, and if time and situation permit to call 911.
    "Society never advances. It recedes as fast on one side as it gains on the other. It undergoes continual change; but this change is not [an improvement]. For everything that is given, something is taken."
    Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    Keep in mind the LEOs who are your audience here...they are most likely like-minded people to yourself. Not always so in the general LEO population.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentX View Post
    Keep in mind the LEOs who are your audience here...they are most likely like-minded people to yourself. Not always so in the general LEO population.
    Good point!
    Training means learning the rules. Experience means learning the exceptions.

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