Tsa Checking Bus Riders Now!!!!

This is a discussion on Tsa Checking Bus Riders Now!!!! within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; [QUOTE=Captain Crunch;450078]What right does a federal agency have to interfere with the lawful movements of people who are NOT engaged in interstate travel? QUOTE] Its ...

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Thread: Tsa Checking Bus Riders Now!!!!

  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array fed_wif_a_sig's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Captain Crunch;450078]What right does a federal agency have to interfere with the lawful movements of people who are NOT engaged in interstate travel? QUOTE]

    Its not if the passenger is traveling interstate, but the modes of transportation that their using are considered interstate, or governed by federal laws and regulations that give the VIPR teams the authority to work in local areas.

    Title 49 USC gives the TSA and DOT the authority to regulate agencies financed by federal dollars and governed by federal laws. Same laws that allowed the federal government to step in and mandate that states stop segration in schools and public transportation.

    However things that were not pointed out by the articles. The VIPR teams also include folks from the state, local and area transportation (local) law enforcement agencies.

    We all scream about it, but I wonder how loud the screaming will be if an IED is detonated on a municipal bus (such as in the London case).

    What I did notice that none of you pointed out is the logic of having "undercover" air marshals working in public view in "uniform". That alone should tell you what it really is and unfortunatly I can tell you what "we're" calling it at work, because that would be grounds for some free (unpaid) time at home.
    Steve
    "Respect all ... Fear none!!!

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  3. #17
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    When I read the first post... I immediately thought one of two things are happening here.

    1) a Big "unchecked" Government is trying to "test the waters" little by little to see how for they can go before they start putting camera's on every square foot of real estate like Great Britian. (which would be worrisome and cause for some alarm and outrage.) or

    2) What is going on that they aren't telling us? I know there has been a lot of chatter and some significant threats that something is going to happen this summer!

    When the bridge collapsed in Minnisota, Michael Chertoff vapor locked for a moment! I would say if he had an implanted defibrillator like Cheney it would have fired a few times!

    Everyone from select members of Congress, DHS, DOJ and FBI went immediately behind closed doors freaking out.

    FBI, true to form, before the the 1st responders were even on the scene and the concrete dust settled were going "No Terrorism Here... Move along, nothing to see here!"

    If things weren't so damn serious, the FBI's standard line would be a joke. NO ONE believes a word they say anymore because logic (for those of us who are thinkers) says it is physically impossible to do any kind of investigation and make blanket statements like that less than 30 minutes after an event. So people are now assuming their new policy is to Immediately Lie to the public and hope for the best!

    Personally I think the government is pretty much afraid how the population as a whole is going to react when another 9-11 type event hits. Especially if it's more than one.

    People KNOW the government is so dysfunctional it is sickening and the next big event, people are gonna be screaming for government heads to roll, in addition the heads of the terrorists. You know Michael Chertoff knows he is one disaster away from becoming the next Mike Brown of FEMA... All Chertoff wants is to retire before the next event so his head doesn't get lopped off next.

    You can't sit there and watch the "dancing bears" on capital hill engage in BS day in and day out and not expect them to freak when the public learns they are more worried about themselves and the wheel of bureaucracy than to effectively protect the public. Just look at the border issue! Games, Games, Games....

    The public spoke out and demanded no amnesty and yet they are going on business as usual trying to sneak it in piece meal by hiding it from the public.

    Congress is starting to find out that the American People are tired of incompetence and excuses and are smart enough to know it when they see it! They are just incapable of changing their ways. I feel sorry for the boots on the ground... They are doing the best they can and doing so in earnest! Hell, I am one of those 1st responders. But the incompetence lies at the top, not with the boots on the ground!



    :RANT OFF: Just my opinion, I could be wrong!
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  4. #18
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    btw... Welcome home fed_wif_a_sig... haven't seen ya in a while!
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  5. #19
    Distinguished Member Array Dakotaranger's Avatar
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    The woman would have to be pretty hot before I'd consent, but even then I'm not that desperate.

    Another good reason to avoid public trasportation.

    If it was voluntary and it was legal to carry what would they do if they turned up a legal weapon? Logic really seams to be skewd on this one.
    "[T]he people are not to be disarmed of their weapons.
    They are left in full possession of them."

    Zacharia Johnson (speech in the Virginia Ratifying Convention,25 June 1778)"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." ~Alexander Hamilton

  6. #20
    Member Array 22RSSIX's Avatar
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    I was looking in the indygo web site. I could not find any links to rules for riders. If there is nothing banning legal CC then they really can't do anything about it.

    I sent indygo a e-mail asking about rules for riders. I did not want to ask about CC directly, but hope I get all the rules. This is what I wrote,

    Hello Indygo staff,

    I am from a small town, I have never experienced public transportation and I will be traveling to Indianapolis for vacation. While here I think that the use of the public bus system will allow me cheap and easy travel. Since I have never been on a public transportation system I wanted to know what the rules are for riders. I looked on the website for info about rules or policies for riders. For example no dogs on the buses stuff like that. Do you have a link or any info that I can read before I ride.

    I hope they give all the details about the rules..etc
    Last edited by 22RSSIX; August 9th, 2007 at 10:19 AM. Reason: added something

  7. #21
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    Perhaps the city bus line is funded with federal money?
    "Just blame Sixto"

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 22RSSIX View Post
    I was looking in the indygo web site. I could not find any links to rules for riders. If there is nothing banning legal CC then they really can't do anything about it.

    I sent indygo a e-mail asking about rules for riders. I did not want to ask about CC directly, but hope I get all the rules. This is what I wrote,

    Hello Indygo staff,

    I am from a small town, I have never experienced public transportation and I will be traveling to Indianapolis for vacation. While here I think that the use of the public bus system will allow me cheap and easy travel. Since I have never been on a public transportation system I wanted to know what the rules are for riders. I looked on the website for info about rules or policies for riders. For example no dogs on the buses stuff like that. Do you have a link or any info that I can read before I ride.

    I hope they give all the details about the rules..etc
    NICE job requesting the rules without spilling the beans!
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the **** out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
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    Great way to get folks to use public transportation and save on gas. I'll just keep on burning up gas with my car.

    Sorry feds, but if you want to grope me, I expect dinner and a movie first!
    "If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan

  10. #24
    Senior Member Array Sig229's Avatar
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    Imagine if that happened to a person who was LEGALLY open carrying, the Feds would have probably hauled them off to GITMO.
    Primary Carry Gun: Sig Sauer 229~R (.40cal w/ Golden Saber JHP's)

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fed_wif_a_sig View Post
    We all scream about it, but I wonder how loud the screaming will be if an IED is detonated on a municipal bus (such as in the London case).

    What I did notice that none of you pointed out is the logic of having "undercover" air marshals working in public view in "uniform". That alone should tell you what it really is and unfortunatly I can tell you what "we're" calling it at work, because that would be grounds for some free (unpaid) time at home.
    BS on #1, and I agree with you on #2. Basically, if I'm travelling, and I encounter something like the "Praying Imams", I might see one of them experiencing a heart attack, help him to the ground, and start vigorous pericardial compressions. It might be contagious...

    Free people administer their own laws.

  12. #26
    Member Array Deacon51's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig229 View Post
    Imagine if that happened to a person who was LEGALLY open carrying, the Feds would have probably hauled them off to GITMO.
    From http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/8/3/03736/76330

    My wife has a cousin who lives in Indy and he was one of the lucky ones volunteered for a pat-down. He, like me, recognizes the value in being prepared for one's own self defense. The screener asked if he could be patted down for weapons to which he responded "I'll save you the trouble, my licensed handgun is on my right hip." The screener thought he was joking. Once she realized he was serious she announced that there was a situation and called in the reinforcements.

    He was told rudely "YOOOOUUU CAN'T CARRY A GUN AROUND HERE!" And he replied "I bet I can, this isn't an airport..." By then a supervisor walked over, took a quick look at his Kentucky CCW and asked the Indianapolis PD next to him if it was any good. The Indy cop replied that a CCW from any state or country is valid in Indiana. So the supervisor declared in a loud voice to let him proceed, treat anyone with a CCW like a cop and pass them on. Needless to say though, he had a very quiet bus ride with lots of passengers staring at him the whole time.

    Aside from being galled at the concept of this kind of thing, I think it's pretty sad that the federal security professionals need to learn the rules as they go. One would think that if you were supposed to set up a checkpoint to screen for weapons, you'd do a preliminary check to see what was against the law in Indiana, what was permitted, etc. Goes to show how arbitrary the whole thing is.

  13. #27
    Distinguished Member Array fed_wif_a_sig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    btw... Welcome home fed_wif_a_sig... haven't seen ya in a while!
    Thanks. Here today and gone (again) tomorrow. See ya'al next week.

    On on the BS about folks going crazy if an IED goes off on public transportation, sorry folks it already happened and the suspect only had a pistol. Ya the media screamed their bloody heads off with "talking heads" critizing the local, state and federal governments for not protecting "all" public transportation.

    Someone mentioned about what the govt is doing and you hearing about it and compared it to what was being done that you didnt know about it, well in this day and age my friend, it cant happen on a large scale without "loose lips" releasing it to the media. Heck I read new policy changes on the internet before I even get them filtered down through my agency, now thats sad.

    Later ya'al off for more fun.
    Steve
    "Respect all ... Fear none!!!

  14. #28
    Distinguished Member Array Colin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig229 View Post
    People often let government official search them because the government officials are trying as hard as possible to intimidate the civilian.
    If there were required to say "Mam, Id like to search you. But you do NOT have to give me permission to do so" would be much more civil.

    But what would be even MORE American, would be no searches of persons going about their business. That type of search is a glorified "Terry" search.

    If there was no PC.

    Welcome to the new world order folks.

    (And im not otef a conspiracy guy)
    Maybe your guys are, but up here our customs guys are way more interested in how much duty you pay.

  15. #29
    Member Array Reloader's Avatar
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    Just an aside. Years ago I was entering the Bexar county courthouse with my EMPTY holster under my suitcoat.. The idiot in charge called the SWAT team to confront me. I showed them my permit and told them I had stored my gun elsewhere outside the courthouse jurisdiction and was only wearing the holster, since it was difficult to remove w/o disrobing.. they chastized the rent-a-cop for being an idiot. He said he has a gun SOMEWHERE! THE SWAT CAPTAIN SAID, "SO WHAT? THERE IS NO LAW ON CARRYING AN EMPTY HOLSTER!" They apologized to me and sent me on my way.
    NRA Pistol Instructor
    NRA Life Member
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  16. #30
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    I had similar - During my visits to INS office in Pittsburgh when working up to my citizenship, I went in one time with holster still on. Gun was secure elsewhere.

    Security guy sees holster because I had to remove my vest and proceeds to tell me that ''you can't bring guns into federal property - you'll be arrested''!!! Right!

    Just as well he told me that - I might have slipped up otherwise. Duh!
    Chris - P95
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    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


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