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I had lunch with a Maryland State Police Trooper

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Thread: I had lunch with a Maryland State Police Trooper

  1. #16
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    conduct a limited search
    may conduct a search of the person limited to a patting or frisking of the person's clothing in search of a handgun.
    Unless there is more...

    This still does not cover a vehicle search.

    Notice that it says limited to a patting or frisking of the persons clothing.
    Unless the English language is different in Maryland, this does not cover a vehicle search.

    While I have no doubt that any officer can get you out and pat you down, for his own saftey, a refusal to consent to a vehicle search is NOT grounds for a search.
    Not in this part of the U.S.A. anyway.

    Is there another law that covers this in MD.?
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  2. #17
    Senior Member Array Juggernaut's Avatar
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    hmm, I saw this thread the other day and recent contact with law enforcement in my area (VSP) leads me to believe they are robots when it comes to the law.
    Quote Originally Posted by P95Carry View Post

    It's the stringency of MD gun laws that really rattles my cage. Now with recent WV reciprocity announcement I am surrounded by ''friendlies'' to my West and SW ..... (OK forget about ''out east!) ..... but heck, MD seriously ''gets in the way'' if I want to go south, even trying to use the ''narrow bit'' of MD to reach VA.

    My option now tho is, despite mileage aspects - to head west and run down thru WV to get to VA. I am a stubborn old phart and will not be disarmed if I can legally prevent it.
    I have a choice tomorrow as I have to go to PA for some business, and one route is almost twice as long as the other.
    If we were riding up there, that might be pretty fun, but that long in a minivan with a trailer, not so much.

    http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=e...=UTF8&z=8&om=1

    http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=e...08643&z=8&om=1
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  3. #18
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Unless there is more...

    This still does not cover a vehicle search.

    Notice that it says limited to a patting or frisking of the persons clothing.
    Unless the English language is different in Maryland, this does not cover a vehicle search.

    While I have no doubt that any officer can get you out and pat you down, for his own safety, a refusal to consent to a vehicle search is NOT grounds for a search.
    Not in this part of the U.S.A. anyway.

    Is there another law that covers this in MD.?
    There is in fact more, much more as the above was not a complete citation as referenced below...

    § 4-206.

    (a) (1) A law enforcement officer may make an inquiry and conduct a limited search of a person under paragraph (2) of this subsection if the officer, in light of the officer's observations, information, and experience, reasonably believes that:

    (i) the person may be wearing, carrying, or transporting a handgun in violation of § 4-203 of this subtitle;

    (ii) because the person possesses a handgun, the person is or presently may be dangerous to the officer or to others;

    (iii) under the circumstances, it is impracticable to obtain a search warrant; and

    (iv) to protect the officer or others, swift measures are necessary to discover whether the person is wearing, carrying, or transporting a handgun.

    (2) If the circumstances specified under paragraph (1) of this subsection exist, a law enforcement officer:

    (i) may approach the person and announce the officer's status as a law enforcement officer;

    (ii) may request the name and address of the person;

    (iii) if the person is in a vehicle, may request the person's license to operate the vehicle and the registration of the vehicle;

    (iv) may ask any question and request any explanation that may be reasonably calculated to determine whether the person is unlawfully wearing, carrying, or transporting a handgun in violation of § 4-203 of this subtitle; and

    (v) if the person does not offer an explanation that dispels the officer's reasonable beliefs described in paragraph (1) of this subsection, may conduct a search of the person limited to a patting or frisking of the person's clothing in search of a handgun.

    (3) A law enforcement officer acting under this subsection shall take into account all circumstances of the occasion, including the age, appearance, physical condition, manner, and gender of the person approached.

    (b) (1) If the officer discovers that the person is wearing, carrying, or transporting a handgun, the officer may demand evidence from the person of the person's authority to wear, carry, or transport the handgun in accordance with § 4-203(b) of this article.

    (2) If the person does not produce the evidence specified in paragraph (1) of this subsection, the officer may seize the handgun and arrest the person.

    (c) (1) A law enforcement officer who conducts a search or seizure in accordance with this section shall file a written report with the law enforcement officer's employer unit within 24 hours after the search or seizure.

    (2) The report shall be on a form that the Secretary of Public Safety and Correctional Services prescribes, shall include the name of the person searched, and shall describe the circumstances surrounding and the reasons for the search or seizure.

    (3) A copy of the report shall be sent to the Secretary of the State Police.

    (d) On request of a law enforcement officer, the Attorney General shall defend the officer in a civil action, including any appeal, in which the officer is sued for conducting a search or seizure under this section that is alleged to be unreasonable and unlawful.

    (e) (1) This section may not be construed to limit the right of a law enforcement officer to conduct any other type of search or seizure or make an arrest that is otherwise authorized by law.

    (2) The provisions of this section are in addition to and not limited by the provisions of Title 2 of the Criminal Procedure Article.


    Source - http://mlis.state.md.us/cgi-win/web_....exe?gcr&4-206
    Take note of Sections 3e 1 & 2.
    The English language in MD is very much same as where ever you might currently be.
    Maryland law has more to say toward this subject in Title 2...

    § 2-203.

    (a) A police officer without a warrant may arrest a person if the police officer has probable cause to believe:

    (1) that the person has committed a crime listed in subsection (b) of this section; and


    (2) that unless the person is arrested immediately, the person:

    (i) may not be apprehended;

    (ii) may cause physical injury or property damage to another; or

    (iii) may tamper with, dispose of, or destroy evidence.

    (b) The crimes referred to in subsection (a)(1) of this section are:

    (1) manslaughter by vehicle or vessel under § 2-209 of the Criminal Law Article;

    (2) malicious burning under § 6-104 or § 6-105 of the Criminal Law Article or an attempt to commit the crime;

    (3) malicious mischief under § 6-301 of the Criminal Law Article or an attempt to commit the crime;

    (4) a theft crime where the value of the property or services stolen is less than $500 under § 7-104 or § 7-105 of the Criminal Law Article or an attempt to commit the crime;

    (5) the crime of giving or causing to be given a false alarm of fire under § 9-604 of the Criminal Law Article;

    (6) indecent exposure under § 11-107 of the Criminal Law Article;

    (7) a crime that relates to controlled dangerous substances under Title 5 of the Criminal Law Article or an attempt to commit the crime;

    (8) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun under § 4-203 or § 4-204 of the Criminal Law Article;

    (9) carrying or wearing a concealed weapon under § 4-101 of the Criminal Law Article; and


    (10) prostitution and related crimes under Title 11, Subtitle 3 of the Criminal Law Article.

    Source - http://mlis.state.md.us/cgi-win/web_....exe?gcp&2-203
    Bottom line try driving through MD with a firearm, especially so as a trucker, and by chance get pulled over and asked if you have a firearm onboard. Good luck debating and explaining English with the officer as he detains and searches your vehicle under probable cause, just prior to him arresting you.

    - Janq is not an attorney
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  4. #19
    Senior Member Array Fragman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Move to Texas...I used to live in Laurel and Glen Burnie. It's a nice area, but I like the gun laws...and weather...and tax rates...plus a million other things in Texas better.

    Cheers! M2
    Texas is AWESOME! Though 100 plus degrees in Houston can be a little wearing, it's a small price to pay!

  5. #20
    Member Array soundwave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    There is in fact more, much more as the above was not a complete citation as referenced below...
    Thank GOD I don't live in that state! Since when do you have to start codifying case law like that? lol That's pretty much the same way it is across the country but it does give the LEOs a little more leeway in what constitutes reasonable suspicion and PC.

    Cheers.
    "The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms; history shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subjected people to carry arms have prepared their own fall." Adolf Hitler

  6. #21
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    Ok Janq...
    Since your statute referenced specificall refrenced 4- 203,

    1) A law enforcement officer may make an inquiry and conduct a limited search of a person under paragraph (2) of this subsection if the officer, in light of the officer's observations, information, and experience, reasonably believes that:

    (i) the person may be wearing, carrying, or transporting a handgun in violation of 4-203 of this subtitle;
    I went and looked at it.

    Basically, I came to the conclusion that the state of Maryland sucks when it comes to personal defense, meaning that they dont allow it unless you have had numerous documented attempts on your life or can certify that you handle large amoutns of cash.

    With that being said, if one gets arrested for carrying a weapon, then the Cop can and more than likely will do a search of the vehicle. If he places a person under arrest, he is well within the scope of his duties to do a vehicle search.

    Bottom line try driving through MD with a firearm, especially so as a trucker, and by chance get pulled over and asked if you have a firearm onboard.
    Just another reason to never go to Maryland.

    Rest assured that most states arent as hosed up as that one.

    -HotGuns is not an attorney.
    thank goodness...
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
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  7. #22
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Very much agreed HG....Maryland does suck for _exactly_ the reasons you stated.
    I grew up my entire life in DC and MD (P.G. County and went to college at UMD) and it's been this way since hell a long time ago.

    I figured you would look at 4-203, as I have before, and yep it gets worst as you go deeper. Keep digging and you'll come up in communist China or it'll seem to be somewhere there about.

    At the end of the day you hit the nail right on the head and while you're at it be sure to steer clear of DC as well.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deacon51 View Post
    I'm just glad I decided not to go to the range today, if I would have my XD9 would have been behind my truck seat.

    Now that could have been awkward, because I might have said "Here I am at lunch, risking going to jail for 3 years because I have a gun out in my truck... so Bob, what do you do for a living?"
    Well, Deacon, here is a perfect opportunity for you to learn the lesson of NEVER EVER EVER EVER OPEN YOUR MOUTH AND ADMIT TO ANYONE THAT YOU ARE INDEED IN VIOLATION OF THE LAW. In fact, never admit to having ever violated the law. Learn how to keep a secret.

    After I read Unintended Consequences by John Ross, I practiced this.

    The next time I did something naughty, something that technically could have resulted in legal trouble, I swore to myself that I would never tell a living soul, ever. It would just be a secret between me and myself.

    I did and still do think of it as "practice" for being able to keep my mouth shut when it will really count.

    I think everyone should practice doing this -- generally you can do it about even normal everyday things. Just pick one. What matters is that you know you did something, and you made a conscious pact to never speak of it again.

    Think about what you could ever possibly have to gain by casually mentioning that something you did could have gotten you arrested. There is no gain to be had. Never make a move that has all down sides and no up sides.

  9. #24
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    I'm sorry that its like that where you live Janq. You have my condolences.

    I did read all of 203, 204 and 205.One of them deals with antique weapons. They are so scared of guns that they even include antiques.

    Any you are quite right, the more I read the sicker I got.

    How'd you know Id look at 4-203 ?
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
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  10. #25
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Maryland seems to have gotten even more antigun since I left. Maryland used to be pretty much "common law" but I think about six years ago they decided to codify everything. I am so glad I escaped when I did!
    Just for reference for those in the D.C. area, the Baltimore/Washington Parkway, the George Washington Parkway in Virginia and the Clara Barton Parkway in southern Montgomery county, are patroled by U.S. Park Police. They are U.S. Park property. And U.S. Park Police officers (at least the ones I know) take their jobs very seriously. You do not want to be caught with a weapon on any of these roadways.
    As far as the Troopers duties, it depends on which Barrack he is out of. Some, like the Rockville Barrack are exclusively traffic. Others, like Berlin also will run domestics and stuff with the local PD or Sheriffs office. A former neighbor of mine is on our departments firearms interdiction unit. He is pro 2A all the way. As he said, when he raised his hand and took the oath, it was to enforce all of the laws, not just the ones he agreed with. He says it kind of sucks sometimes having to charge some of the cases he gets called out on, but then things even out when he gets to take a real dirt bag off the street for five or ten years minimum.

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