Patrol Rifle/Carbines

Patrol Rifle/Carbines

This is a discussion on Patrol Rifle/Carbines within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; A local agency is looking to trade some confiscated firearms into some kind of patrol long gun(s). They are as yet undecided on exactly what ...

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Thread: Patrol Rifle/Carbines

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Superhouse 15's Avatar
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    Patrol Rifle/Carbines

    A local agency is looking to trade some confiscated firearms into some kind of patrol long gun(s). They are as yet undecided on exactly what they want. In a brief conversation with the Chief, he seemed to favor a pistol caliber carbine under the perception (to him) of reduced hazard downrange. He seemed to not want fully automatic or rifle rounds and seemed concerned some anxious officer would let go a burst in a trailer park and blow off a bunch of extra rifle rounds to bounce through people's living rooms. The area is semi-rural with a busy highway through the middle. A mix of nice houses, a low income area, rural back trails, and light industry. We do indeed have a bit of everything here. Issue pistol is the Beretta 92, however a bunch of other stuff is approved and the majority of officers that carry something else carry a Glock 22. They are small and may not have a huge budget for guns, so the case may be that there aren't enough for every officer and it may be a "sign it out at the beginning of shift" kind of deal. They are using 870s now, and a couple of those are former confiscated guns they put in service.

    Anyone have any experience with the various patrol long guns in their agency? Looking for pros, cons, likes, dislikes, and a justification on choices I can offer to the Chief. Anyone made or helped make this decision for themselves or their agency?


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    Ours are just standard AR15's Mine is a 20 heavy barrel as are most others. Some carry the 16" incher with the collapsible stock.

    The AR is great in that there are an infinite number of ways to customize it....if a standard stock is too long a different stock can be on it or vice versa. The parts are readily available and the caliber is OK. No recoil to speak of so anyone can handle it. If something wears out, just about anyone can figure out how to fix it.

    Its defiantly better than a shotgun if ranges are out there too...
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    I was at the range a month ago when a Morton County Deputy was qualifyiing. His patrol rifle was a Kalishankov.

    They were in too much of a hurry to go eat for me to ask questions, but that's life.
    "[T]he people are not to be disarmed of their weapons.
    They are left in full possession of them."

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    IMO, The AR is really the only way to go. Plenty of support is available, I really cant say that for the others. There is also lots of options for car mounting.
    Just make sure you stress to him to use something to lock the sights in place (nail polish)
    if they are going to be passed form person to person.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    My department went through this looong drawn out process a few years ago. Not being a sworn officer ( but the known "gun nut" in communications) I had no official part in the process, but did have the ear of a couple of the committee members. I asked them a couple of questions that I thought were key to the selection process.
    What is your intended purpose for this weapon? Are you simply looking to effectively give the officers a longer range more accurate pistol? If so, a good 9mm carbine would be fine. With the longer sight radius and longer barrel you will have more practical accuracy and depending on the load used a moderate increase in muzzle energy. This will also keep ammunition expenses down as you would be able to use the same cartridge for both the side arm and the carbine. If, however, you want to give the officers a rifle, then go with a rifle caliber. .223 rounds will give them in the neighborhood of 1100 ft/lbs of muzzle energy which is a significant increase over the pistol caliber carbine.
    Our department was able to obtain some (army)surplus M-16A1s that were (mostly) converted to semi-auto only. Some of the barrels were showing their age, but we also got some real shooters. Our armorers rebarreled a couple of them, and there has been talk of eventually going to an M-4 type upper as the budget allows. Officers who have qualified are also allowed to purchase their own, with each rifle subject to inspection and approval by range staff.

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    Senior Member Array MR D's Avatar
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    Dad's department required them to supply/qualify with their own - his is an M-1 carbine in .30 cal...

    in Dayton, Ohio a couple of weeks back I saw a LEO with a High Point on a single point sling...

    (If I were in your position I would want the AR platform, but the M-1 carbine can be had at fair prices)

    High points are often under 200 around here - auction the confiscated guns and buy an arsenal of 9mm high point carbines...

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    Pistol cal.
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    Check with Homeland Security , there should be a grant/loan to supply m16s for basicly a free loan ( the dept changes out fire control groups to semi only as well as any mods such as tele stocks ) . Proper selection of ammo and you have as safe as any pistol cal carbine at minimal cost . Send one Officer to armorers school to replace the fire control group , maintain weapons ect.. and you have further savings . On training and transition there is a lot of material to " borrow " from other depts ( no need to re invent the wheel ) . Ammo is cheap as centerfire is going to get for training , the only downside ( which to me is actually an upside since you justify rifle ammo as a separate weapon and line item from the duty pistol ammo ) is that the rifle will not accept the mags/ammo of an issued pistol . So in summation , if you can find that grant/loan program ( i will ask locally if needed since i know some agencys got patrol rifles this way ) yall can set up an officer with an issued rifle for under 200 bucks , possibly including a cheap drag bag and sling, and telestock depending on how you do the conversion to semi . If your a dealer , come at this from the " armorer " and parts/ammo sales and be happy with an almost zero investment ( the armorer school ) that continues to pay for many years in not only monitairy dividends but goodwill as well .

    Edited to add:

    The downside is that the fed .gov does not actually transfer ownersip and wants the weapons back ( should the dept desolve , get rolled into another agency , ect .. in the same condition as they sent them out , so save all changed parts to put back on when and if needed ( say a catastrophic failure that ruins a rifle , you will need to return it with all original parts to get another )
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
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    IMO, there is very little to be gained by going with a pistol cartridge. Might as well issue 30 round mags for the issue Glocks. Semi-Auto AR should do the trick. If money is real tight, then mini 14's would probably do.
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    Distinguished Member Array fed_wif_a_sig's Avatar
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    Not a fan of pistol caliber rifles and back on patrol we carried our privatly purchased AR-15 and then the dept contacted the Department of Defense representative in our state (each one has one) and acquired M-16s that we modified for patrol use. Alot cheaper and they still shot great. With quality JHP ammo, the 223 is very effective.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LBrombach View Post
    IMO, there is very little to be gained by going with a pistol cartridge. Might as well issue 30 round mags for the issue Glocks. Semi-Auto AR should do the trick. If money is real tight, then mini 14's would probably do.
    Agreed with all but the last part... the mini is a fine gun if you aren't betting your life on it or if you have others available, but with their costs going up, AR costs going down, and so many companies selling AR-15's offering discounts to law enforcement I see no reason to go with the mini-14. A better rifle is available for about the same amount or not much more.


    -B

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    They can get M16's for free from Uncle Sam too.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    I think Remington has the right idea. They have police rifles made on the 7600 pump action, both in .223 and .308. The first uses standard M-16 mags, and the latter uses a large capacity magazine. The theory is that they operate in exactly the same way as the 870, and transition would be almost automatic.
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