Chiefs are with us for the most part

Chiefs are with us for the most part

This is a discussion on Chiefs are with us for the most part within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; http://www.phxnews.com/fullstory.php?article=22621 The National Association of Chiefs of Police released its 17th Annual Survey of Police Chiefs and Sheriffs and some of the survey findings are ...

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Thread: Chiefs are with us for the most part

  1. #1
    Senior Member
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    Chiefs are with us for the most part

    http://www.phxnews.com/fullstory.php?article=22621

    The National Association of Chiefs of Police released its 17th Annual Survey of Police Chiefs and Sheriffs and some of the survey findings are surprising and compelling...

    Gun Control: With regard to private citizens owning firearms for sport or self-defense, 93.6 percent of the respondents supported civilian gun-ownership rights. Ninety-six percent of the police chiefs and sheriffs believe criminals obtain firearms from illegal sources and 92.2 percent revealed they hadn't arrested anyone for violation of the so-called "waiting period" laws. When asked if citizens concealed-weapons permits would reduce violent crime, 63.1 percent said yes.
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    Senior Member Array CombatEffective's Avatar
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    Yet the politicos will always claim the police are in favor of gun control. In 6.5 years on the job I have only worked with one cop that truly defined himself as a liberal democrat. There are some that aren't staunch gun rights people, but they are mainly those that never owned or used firearms prior to becoming a cop and only have their service weapon.
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    The Gov and DOJ will have sheriffs and other law enforcement types advising them on gun control and like issues. There will also be some number of law enforcement who are 2d ammendment supporters. I am afraid the antigun law enforcement get listened by the head guys.
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    FortyFive - much better figures than I might have guessed - it is encouraging. Pity maybe their ''voice'' is not that effective on our behalf - or just perhaps anti's choose not to listen - that'd be normal!
    Chris - P95
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    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    much better than i would have guess to bad they dont get listened to and they anit gun have the ear's of the lawmakers

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    Looking at those figures you have to wonder why there are still States that refuse to issue. Unless, they just like haveing high crime rate figures! (Look! My murder rate is higher than your's.... I WIN!!)
    Rick

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    Distinguished Member Array RSSZ's Avatar
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    CombatEffective, I an pleased that you will admit (in your above post) that all the cops that are dispatched to protect me at 0300 during a home invasion aren't as well trained as most of them want us to believe. Your statement should make us all(in this forum) really think about our response to violence directed at us or our families. "There are some that aren't staunch gun rights people,but they are mainly those that never owned or used firearms prior to becomeing a cop and only have(own?) their service weapon." These LEO's IMO are the ones that will not go out and shoot/practice on their own. They shoot ONLY enough during the year to barely qualify. Then they whine about having to do that.These are the LEO's that will tell us that we should not fight back. We should call 911 and take our family and hide in the closet until "help" arrives. We should not have loaded guns(weapons) in the house cuz we could hurt ourselves or our children. I realize that these LEO's are the minority in the LEO community but we need to be aware that they exist and could be dispatched to our(your) house in the middle of the night. With this said,I also freely admit that LEO's have a very tough job to do out on the streets of out cities. I would not want to have their job. Mainly cuz if I did I could not follow the chiefs orders(probably) and tell the public not to defend themselves.--------

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    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    Most police officers I think actually have a lot of common horse sense. It's the idiot politicians and a few bad apples that make their situation so screwed up. It's just like education...

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    Distinguished Member Array RSSZ's Avatar
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    EUC, Don't know 'bout education, but would agree with the rest of your statement. I call it the 2% rule. I believe in ANY group,2% of the people will be "different"(for the lack of a unkinder word).---------

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array CombatEffective's Avatar
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    RSSZ,

    Quite a few of the officers in my department don't own any firearms at all. They only have the departmentally issued weapon. In my department of 70+ officers, there are 10 of us give or take that really know what we are doing with a firearm. Most of the others have a fairly good idea of what to do, but they really aren't interested in them. There is a good number that barely manage to qualify and have absolutely no clue what they are doing with a firearm.
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  11. #11
    Distinguished Member Array LenS's Avatar
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    I wonder if CombatEffective is from the Northeast too!

    A little personal background: I was a Reserve/Special PO for my town for 18 years, "retiring" in 1996 due to a massive change in policies for us (totally disarmed and arrest powers removed by current chief). There are only ~25 FT POs here in a town of 18K, but we used to have ~35 Reserve/Special POs that were trained (academy, CPR, First Responder and firearms) and available as needed (mostly for free to the town). I am now a Constable (for past 6 years) with full LE powers but don't work with or for the PD.

    First of all, I've never heard of this national chiefs org. In MA we have the Mass Chiefs org (MCOPA) who have a LOT of political clout, have as a published agenda an anti-2nd Amendment policy (restrict/no guns for civilians, more anti-gun laws, etc.). MCOPA was officially against HR218 (allowing POs to carry in the entire US), does not endorse BUGs, does not endorse off-duty carry, write the curriculum for the official training academies, etc. Almost to a man, the Mass Chiefs are a bunch of "desk jockeys" who haven't been on the streets in at least 10 years . . . they have no clue what it is like for the rank and file officer out there.

    Chiefs in MA are appointed by the local town/city government and serve at their pleasure, so if they don't do as they are told by their bosses (liberals), they are fired and out on their ear! This probably contributes to their anti-gun policies.

    There is NO chapter of the union that proposed HR218 in the entire state of MA!

    There is NO safety training in the police academy training (not when I took it and not that I'm aware of today) and the qualification is a joke (milk bottle targets while standing still).

    I only knew one officer (now retired) in the entire PD that carried off-duty. Most officers don't know anything about the gun that they carry on duty and don't own any guns of their own, don't hunt, don't shoot except qualification 1x/year (100 rds - 50 practice and 50 for official qual).

    I belong to one gun club (2700 members) where there is a high number (probably 2-300) of LEOs that belong. . .these are folks that actually shoot because they enjoy it or realize that their life may depend on it someday. They are the exception rather than the rule.

    So, in MA when the police orgs (brass) are polled they are 100% anti-gun, anti-civilian gun ownership! And these are the folks that our legislators listen to for advise on creating new anti-gun laws.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Array CombatEffective's Avatar
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    LenS,

    I'm in Georgia. I bet it is hard to police up there with no support whatsoever.
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    Distinguished Member Array RSSZ's Avatar
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    CombatEffective & LenS , Thanks for your very frank(and honest) post. I don't want to take away from anything that the brave,honest,and WELL TRAINED police officers in our cities and towns all across America are doing to protect us each and ever day.---- BUT---- I want the people that read and contribute to this forum to be totally aware that their safety and the safety of their family/loved ones is in their hands. Lets be ready to defend ourselves by any and all means legally possible. We need to be better trained than the rest,more aware than the rest,and have a better mindset than the rest. We owe that to ourselves and the families that we have the honor to protect.-------

  14. #14
    Distinguished Member Array LenS's Avatar
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    CombatEffective: Yes, it's not a job that I'd want to do FT! Policing here is largely report-taking, especially in the smaller communities. They don't have the resources to do any pro-active work unless it is grant-funded. No support from the brass and no money for improvements! When I moved to this town in 1974 (pop of 11K then) we had ~24 FT POs, but the Reserve/Special POs used to patrol on weekends (free), fill in when no FT wanted OT/details (paid), etc. Now we have 25 FT POs, pop of 18K, twice as many homes as 1974 and only ~4-6 Reserve POs (under a new program they started, mostly those on Civil Service list waiting for a FT slot) and mandated limit on OT/details so that a lot goes unfilled. Cost for events like 4th of July (20K on the beach for fireworks) due to OT (when ~30 of us used to work for free) is astronomical but they only use maybe 6-8 additional people (lots of unmanned barricades now).

    As I was told some 20+ years ago when I first started working shifts, "it all counts for 20" . . . don't go looking for trouble, don't make arrests, etc.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Array CombatEffective's Avatar
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    What a lot folks don't realize is just how thin police officers are stretched. In the county to the north of me, the sheriff's office is the only full time law enforcement agancy. Two of the towns in teh county maintain police departments that operate during certain hours but are not full time/full service. Another town contracts with the SO to have a deputy within the city limits during certain times of the day.

    A patrol shift for the SO consists of 4 deputies and that is including the supervisor. Therefore, there is a good portion of the time that the county only has four law enforcement officers on duty, and that is if everyone on the shift is actually at work. The county is a rural county and covers a large land area. I have been riding along with a deputy friend there when we have had to run code (lights & sirens) for 20 minutes or more to get to a call. A lot can happen in that amount of time. As well all know, a lot can happen in 5 seconds or even less.

    In my opnion, you can trust 911 if you want to. I don't, and I'm part of that system. You must be prepared to defend the lives that you hold dear yourself.
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