Curious about military rifle handling

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Thread: Curious about military rifle handling

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Curious about military rifle handling

    Why do I see our troops in shooting position with the butt over their shoulder?
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    Senior Member Array dgg9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    Why do I see our troops in shooting position with the butt over their shoulder?
    Not sure what you mean, but when you shoot a carbine like the M4, you end up having the buttstock only half on your shoulder; the other half above it.

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    JD
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    If it's a fully stocked A2, you do it to make your weapon shorter for CQB type stuff.

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    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    Maybe for fatigue reasons if you are at it for a long time? Bring the gun to eye level so your head doesn't have to come down?
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    As JD said a A2 stock doesn't work well for CQB . Mostly the Army has gone to M4 stocks the Marine Corp has yet to switch over.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


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    Senior Member Array dgg9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LBrombach View Post
    Maybe for fatigue reasons if you are at it for a long time? Bring the gun to eye level so your head doesn't have to come down?
    Fatigue is a non-factor: generally you always want to bring the gun to eye level rather than have to come down to it. Quick and repeatable cheek weld makes CQB shooting possible.

    Basically, the M4/AR15 stock doesn't fit where your shoulder would like it to fit. It has to sit half over it.

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    VIP Member Array raevan's Avatar
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    I always felt that this was an obvious design error. Up untill Nam our soldiers had a proper rifle, after that we were made subject to designers not shooters.
    ( please don't be offended on my stance, I just don't like those type of rifles.
    The sholder is there so let it help with the recoil.)

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    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    I don't think it was a design error. I understand that the position of the stock is intentionally aligned with the barrel, instead of dropped down like a classic stock. This is so the muzzle blast pushes back through the shoulder, as opposed to fulcruming and causing muzzle climb. Makes for quicker follow up shots, according to Mr. Stoner. For this reason the sights had to be mounted up high. I could always shoot it fine,with the stock properly at my shoulder. But then, I've never shot at anything other helpless paper.
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    Member Array pistola's Avatar
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    Talking Nose

    Quote Originally Posted by dgg9 View Post
    Quick and repeatable cheek weld makes CQB shooting possible.
    Nose on the charging handle worked for me.
    U.S. Army Veteran

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    Member Array VegasSIG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    If it's a fully stocked A2, you do it to make your weapon shorter for CQB type stuff.
    Thats what I was taught.

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    Member Array Airborne Sniper's Avatar
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    Different shooting positions get taught to different people in different ways. At very close range, in cqb or cqc, you can quickly and effectively engage a target by looking over the top of the rifle and by placing the butt of the rifle high on your shoulder or over the top of your shoulder. CQB or CQC = Close Quarter Battle or Close Quarter Combat. Often in urban shooting situations you're shooting a target only a few feet from your location. Sort of like shooting across a short room or down a short hallway. Another comparison would be the difference between point shooting and sighted (ALWAYS using the sights of your firearm) shooting. Point shooting is done using a flashsight picture or by looking over the end of a gun barrel instead of ALWAYS properly using the sights of a firearm every single time. Different techniques that both work.
    Imagine that you're an enemy soldier and you are surrounded by U.S. Army paratroopers on one side and American marines on the other side... Talk about a hopeless situation... That has got to be legal grounds for suicide!

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    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    Butt stays in the air to faciliate keeping sand outta your BDU waist band.
    Prevents a sand-blast type chaffing.
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    Member Array SemperGumby's Avatar
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    The recoil of the 5.56 round out of any AR or M-16 variant is not so bad as to make the high position of the stock a problem. You have that huge recoil spring for a reason.

    I like having the toe of the stock in the pocket of my shoulder because this allows me to have my head erect and able to see well in all directions. This makes it quite simple to move or "combat glide" normally without contorting my head and neck to meet my weapon. It also allows you to bring the rifle up to your face or keep it there instead of having to bring the rifle up and your head down to the stock to establish a cheek weld. It looks funny but it's quite comfortable and I couldn't imagining shooting an AR/M-16 any other way.
    Mike

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    New Member Array crusty1SG's Avatar
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    Try it, you'll like it. (Recoil? Recoil? We don't have no stinkin' recoil.)
    Last edited by crusty1SG; November 4th, 2007 at 10:01 PM. Reason: Thought of something amusing, at least I hope it was.

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    Distinguished Member Array Colin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pistola View Post
    Nose on the charging handle worked for me.

    Yes I remember letting a bunch of US soldiers fire our FN's, they did the "cozy up to the sight thing", despite us warning them not to, or did not push the stock into the shoulder. Lots of cursing, screaming, bruising and bleeding going on. Except for some of the guys who had their own guns or trained on the M14, they all did fine.

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