Should the Military have an opt out option - Page 2

Should the Military have an opt out option

This is a discussion on Should the Military have an opt out option within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Sir, I wasn't going to discuss specifics of my medical condition, but I will just to shed a little on the subject. I have a ...

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  1. #16
    Senior Member Array CombatEffective's Avatar
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    Sir, I wasn't going to discuss specifics of my medical condition, but I will just to shed a little on the subject. I have a very small patch of psoriasis on the little finger on my left hand. It is nothing like the stuff you'll see if you do a search for it on the net as those are exreme cases. However, it is still psoriasis. This is an automatic disqualifier for military service. Does that little patch of rough skin on my finger disqualify me from being a police officer? I think not. I have a fellow officer in my department that passed every step in the process to get into the Naval Academy until they found a patch of it on his back and disqualified him. We're both pretty good police officers. He's a member of our SRT, and he's pretty good at it. I'm a detective. I've won awards from the community for my efforts in DUI enforcement when I was in uniform. I'm a firearms instructor and a munitions specialist for our riot squad. I say we've both done pretty good even though we were rejected by the military. By the way, I also have a masters degree and he will have his soon. The particular academic program is ranked #3 in the country just behind Harvard's program and ahead of the rest of the Ivey League and schools all of the important people attend. I think that shows we are both pretty intelligent.

    Before you hurl broad accusations maybe you should look and see just what will disqualify a person from military service. You'll find that many conditions that will do just that really have no impact on a persons daily life or ability to perform as a police offier, firefighter, EMT, or many other such jobs.
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  2. #17
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    I'm not going to leave it that. I'm going to add one more. We have an officer in my department that was a USMC Reservist. He was activated for duty in Iraq this time around. While over there, he was injured in an accident at a loading dock. He was on the dock and had to dive out of the way when a bomb, yes a bomb, that was being unloaded from the back of a truck fell over. He got out of the way but severly injured his knee in the process. He was shipped home and then to CA for medical treatment. He had a couple of surgeries and had to wear a brace for a while. He did the rehab thing and had to wear a brace or a while. A year later he was medically cleared to come back to work as an officer. He has done pretty good since being back, and he was rcently selected for a very prestigious assignment. He has been medically disqualified from any further military service though. His knee would proably keep him from doing a 19 mile forced march or a four mile run, but it doesn't stop him from running the 50 yards or so he needs to run to catch a fleeing subject in a foot chase as he has already proven he can still do.

    I know a corrections officer that was in the Army. He had a motorcycle wreck and injured his ankle. The military treated his ankle and then medically discharged him against his will. He's fine, and he says he can do all of the thinks he could do before the injury; however, he is still disqualified from military service due to a medical condition. It doesn't stop him from being a CO though.

    Combat conditions and working the streets are completely different animals.
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  3. #18
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    Really interesting and deeply personal replies, thank you and keep them coming. PLease don't get into a shouting match, people are proud of what they do and who they are. It was good I believe to hear the background "noise" that drives us through the day. I have seen my share of stuff that happens and being young at the time it gets shrugged off. I retired from the military about 38 years ago. I believe some form of military training for all whould have improved our country by keeping people out of trouble and maybe giving them a leg up on facing life. To me it was just a job, sometimes an exciting job.
    Take care guys and keep the comments coming.
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  4. #19
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    I was medically disqualified. So i cant really say couldnt get any of the branches to take me not even the jarheads :)
    Ill add that i was kicked becuse of 3 shoulder reconstructive surgreys on my right shoulder i was fine could have done my time then but not now as my shoulder wont hold up



    but with what i seen now of the kids rember im not 30 yet i wouldnt want to many of them nimrods at once or we would be worse off...

    Would manadorty service do any better well it worked some for iseral(sp) but thats a different sotry there .. If we start getting attacked like they do there then we will have to do something.


    At least some training for evere man and woman as they come of age would help.

    But i dont think you should be able to opt out when your signing on for 4 years ya better have a ideal what your getting into if not shame on you
    Last edited by Bud White; July 4th, 2005 at 10:31 AM.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by LenS
    I think mandatory service for ALL adults would be a big plus to true security in the US, especially in fighting the war against terrorism. For those of us who were medically unsuitable to serve, we should still be required to serve, perhaps in a different way "limited duty" vs. combat. The Israeli system is sort of a "reserve" system where their lives generally don't go on hold for years, but just serve x weeks at a time, when they aren't in a state of war.

    Think of the advantage of having every adult trained on what to look for to spot a terrorist BEFORE they hit us! That is what Israel has, all soldiers learn what to look for and what to do when they spot a suspicious person. In the US, most all people are in "terminal condition white", oblivious to all around them, we're trained to let LE handle all problems and defend us as opposed to us defending our society/government/country.
    I have seen stories about civilian Israelis (read that as not on active duty) taking out bombers. While I can't vouch for the accuracy of the stories, it doesn't seem likely that would or could happen in this country.

    Another advantage would be that more people would have at least basic weapons training. Maybe that would cut down on the number of "anti's" that have never touched a handgun telling us how guns kill.
    Rick

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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by RSSZ
    The military is rejecting people for enlistment then they go out and JOIN A POLICE FORCE. Don't know 'bout you but that tells me something. And it's not what I want to hear as a person that might have to be "rescued" by a LEO.-------
    A slight pause here folks!

    Lets be careful and make sure that this thread doesn't degrade into something personal. (Not aimed at any one person, just seemed like a good place for the reminder.)

    Having spent 1/3rd of my life in the military, they have been known to do strange things medically, usually to the extreme!

    There is a Big difference in being expected to spend weeks and months in the worst possible conditions, and pulling an 8 hour shift in an inner city. you can't really compare the two sets of medical requirements. In the early 80's the Army started a push on overweight personnel, I lost one from my unit....... He was a lot "smaller" than a lot of the local cops! (No disrespect intended.)

    Anyhow, this is a good interesting thread, lets be careful with it!

    Your friendly Moderator,
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  7. #22
    Distinguished Member Array RSSZ's Avatar
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    Here's one more thought-------> IF I were a LEO, Lt. or Capt. or had anything to do with promotions and had two different people up for promotions,THAT ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL,except one of them had prior military service take a guess which one I'd promote ?? From what I've heard this happens,to a certin extent in the civilian community,not just LEO's either. Everybody that works for the betterment of this country has my blessing. Please don't feel that your all not appreciated by me. Some of you have very tough jobs to do and you do them very well.I just feel that you will NEVER convince me or others out there that you did/are doing a job that is as much for THIS COUNTRY as a person in uniform(MILITARY UNIFORM).---------

  8. #23
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    rstickle you said;
    "I have seen stories about civilian Israelis (read that as not on active duty) taking out bombers. While I can't vouch for the accuracy of the stories, it doesn't seem likely that would or could happen in this country.

    Another advantage would be that more people would have at least basic weapons training. Maybe that would cut down on the number of "anti's" that have never touched a handgun telling us how guns kill."

    I sure agree with you! In California we are walking into a very dangerious time period for the average family. The DOJ is anti-gun as are the Legislative branch of our state. We are being stripped of protection by their democrat ways.
    ==
    How does this play out?? Last night on TV was a special report about the ms13 gangs, the government is now worried about their impact on our homeland security. Law Enforcement right along has not worked to control and lock up illegals and now its a serious crisis. Without the abilty to arm yourself and the law against you all the training in the world is not going to help. Either law enforcement is there active to protect society or its not, if not get some form of help from the feds.
    In a certain respect its a little late to get people into military service for training. Their training is in prison and on the streets.
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  9. #24
    Senior Member Array KC135's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rstickle
    NO! That is a states rights thing. I think that military service should be universal......... Everyone serves, kind of like the old draft, but everyone.



    I did over 20 also, and what bothered me was feeling more and more that we sould be out of Vietnam. (I was still in at the time.) I was in basic when the Gulf of Tonkin thing went down.

    People change, but everyone should have the experence

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  10. #25
    Senior Member Array Tom357's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FortyFive
    ...Here is the question! Do you think especially in those states where you cannot exercise your constitution rights to buy a firearm and to carry a firearm that you should be able to opt out of the Military and walk away with a normal discharge??? Why give your life for politicians who are taking away your rights as a citizen.
    Please donít blast me, I have served over 20 years and never had thoughts like these until time allowed me to see a wide vision of where we are heading.
    Thanks.
    No. You aren't laying your life on the line for politicians or states. You swear (or affirm) to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, and that you will bear true faith and allegiance to the Constitution. It is the Constitution, for which you are giving your life - something bigger and far more important than any petty bureaucrat or politican. It is your solemn oath, not to be broken for a moment's adversity.

    If you are upset with what your elected officials are doing, work for change. If you are upset with what their appointed officials are doing, work for change. Consider your oath. Perhaps you need to protect and defend the
    Constitution against enemies less obvious, perhaps, than terrorists.

    Within minutes of the Supreme Court decision on eminent domain, I, and many thousands of others, let our representatives in Congress know how displeased we were with the decision of the Supreme Court. Within days, Congress was working on a response to that judicial miscarriage. Soon, I hope we will have it rectified. We must, each of us, do our part to support and defend our Constitution, if not as sworn soldiers, then as citizens.

    To me, all service is worthy of respect. Some choose to serve in the military. Some would serve in the military but cannot. Some serve for pay. Some serve without pay. Some serve their country. Some serve their communities. All serve. Many lay their lives on the line, each day. You will never convince me that the volunteer fire fighter, EMT, or auxilliary officer who gives his life to save a stranger, is less worthy than his paid, professional counterpart, nor his death in service any less a sacrifice. You will never convince me that any civilian who gives his life in service to his country or to his community, is less worthy than one who serves in the military, nor his death in service any less a sacrifice. Service, freely given, no matter its form, is precious.
    - Tom
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  11. #26
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    Good post Tom, lots of stuff to think about there. Euclidin should see if he could use any of this thread for school.
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  12. #27
    Member Array grnzbra's Avatar
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    Please check out...

    the second incident (female Marine) on this post.

    I have a little difficulty dealing with the concept that someone can say,
    "Go kill that guy over there!" but won't allow me to defend myself from an attack.
    There's a reason The Sopranos is set in New Jersey.
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  13. #28
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    Well I held out as long as I could. It appears there is an an opt out in some cases. I have a personal friend that served in Iraq, in fact, he was at the front of the advance to Bagdad.

    After he was back in the States about two or three months, he went AWOL after serving about half of his five years, and simply disappeared for about 6 weeks. The Army shipped all his personal belongings he left at his base to a relative.

    He has been AWOL for about a year and the Army doesn't seem to be the least bit interested in him. It makes me wonder how many go AWOL, thereby "opting out". my friend pretty thoroughly researched his prospects and just as he expected, basically the Army did nothing to him.

    While I don't approve of what he did, in all fairness I should say that part of the reason he left is he simply couldn't cope with what he had to do in Iraq.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bumper
    I also believe there should be a way for former service people to re-enlist without regard to their age, if their health and physical abilities are still intact. I would go in a heartbeat...
    AMEN, Brother! I tried for YEARS to get my commission reactivated after 911, but my age, condition and certain medical ailments that developed after my service (sleep apnea for one) prevented that. I still think that I could serve at a stateside staff officer slot for a tour and free up a major to go to the sandbox and play, even if I can't. I was an expert in logistics as my secondary and I was an armor officer, too. You are durn straight that I'd love to go play with tanks, anywhere, anytime! But I could serve a really useful purpose as an officer on a general staff in a G4 Plans and Ops slot.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  15. #30
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by rstickle
    I have seen stories about civilian Israelis (read that as not on active duty) taking out bombers. While I can't vouch for the accuracy of the stories, it doesn't seem likely that would or could happen in this country.
    It has happened in Israel and in fairly good numbers. Many of the incidents are distorted by the press in this country so that the "civilian" suddenly looks like "Israeli Security Forces." Mark my words, it WILL happen here that a lawfully armed civilian shuts down a terror attack.



    Quote Originally Posted by rstickle
    Another advantage would be that more people would have at least basic weapons training. Maybe that would cut down on the number of "anti's" that have never touched a handgun telling us how guns kill.
    Agree with you 100%!!! I think it would also dramatically reduce the incidence of firearms accidents. I actually think basic safety training should start in elementary school and continue in escalating intensity through high school so that all soldiers would be trained to shoot before entering the service and the only thing needed to be learned is combat tactics.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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