Taser Fires Back at U.N. Anti-Torture Committee

This is a discussion on Taser Fires Back at U.N. Anti-Torture Committee within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; See below for my opinion....

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Thread: Taser Fires Back at U.N. Anti-Torture Committee

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array rhinokrk's Avatar
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    See below for my opinion.
    Get the U.N. out of the U.S.
    Get the U.S. out of the U.N.

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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
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    The Taser folks should just tell the UN that the device is really meant for genocide, which the UN seems to sanction.
    "If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan

  4. #18
    Member Array Bryan's Avatar
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    Wow what ever happened to talking to people. Lets just give a choice to people of being shocked to death or beaten to death. Nice way to frame the argument though. This country is so polarized it is starting to make me sick. So when do people draw the line with pain compliance? So do you have someone fill out a form stating weather you should beat them to a pulp or get tazered?

    Do you have a heart condition? I do and will respond in kind to that I am threatened with. When do cops become military and the rest of us stupid stinking peasants (civilians). A lot of people are amped up and have chips on their shoulder's. That leads to the great many unnecessary escalations. Believe me, I'm hoping we get back to republic before we get to total fascism.

    It really gets me the hypocrisy that I see more and more everyday. The restraint the we are to espouse as CCW'ers seems to be lacking for the judicial class (yep your still citizens or at least "people" too). I personally hope tazers get banned (but not because of the U.N.). Then it will be deadly force (because of threat of such) vs. negotiation (witch is sadly lacking these days).

    It seem people forgot about any restraint other then the handcuffs and force. If anyone cares to go toe to toe with me, then it's all down to the draw Cause I don't cave to threats, thinly veiled or otherwise! We are all Americans so lets stop this nonsense! Get it through you head, whats going to happen TO YOU when your through with the rest of us? I don't respect police anymore I'm damn afraid of them.

    I'll probably get banned for this but I feel I have to speak my mind.
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  5. #19
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    Bryan, so what do you suggest that police should do when faced with an aggresive unarmed (or lightly armed) individual?

    AFAIK, all less than lethal methods have been deemed torture by one international organization or other and also AFAIK the Star Trek phasers set on stun are not developed yet.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
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  6. #20
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan View Post
    Wow what ever happened to talking to people. Lets just give a choice to people of being shocked to death or beaten to death.
    What, indeed. I'm sure LEO's are wondering what happened to that, as well. People who resist have a choice to not do that.

    So when do people draw the line with pain compliance?
    Judgement varies by the scenario, as with anything else, though law enforcement agencies are going to have training and guidelines they generally follow. I'm sure the LEO's can step in and describe their training, rules of engagement and what percentage of time things go "south" despite best intentions.

    So do you have someone fill out a form stating weather you should beat them to a pulp or get tazered?
    That might help get the attention of some, who don't seem to get the idea early enough.

    Do you have a heart condition? I do and will respond in kind to that I am threatened with.
    Suggesting that arrest for cause is a threat, and that you'll resist such arrest?

    When do cops become military ...
    When they're acting illegally, outside the bounds of training and ROE.

    ... and the rest of us stupid stinking peasants (civilians).
    That varies, of course. Some people walk down the "stupid, stinking peasant" road quite willingly, these days, whether due to an addiction, a learning disorder, an aggravation disorder, outright criminal intent or a host of other reasons.

    A lot of people are amped up and have chips on their shoulder's [sic]. That leads to the great many unnecessary escalations.
    With the few million encounters and arrests, annually, the numbers of abusive engagements are pretty darned low. Check any annual accounting of an agency's engagements and I think you'll find that.

    Believe me, I'm hoping we get back to republic before we get to total fascism.
    The republic had its criminals, resisters and defiant types. Now, drugs and "rats in a cage" syndrome has escalated the risks dramatically. Far fewer are willing to act reasonably; and far more are willing to resist.

    A stranger is beating on your child on your front lawn, and talking hasn't stopped anything. What do you do, short of force?

    A hundred folks line up in front of you, the LEO, and you're tasked with arresting five of them. Three resist to some degree or other. You're still tasked with making the arrest, anyway. What do you do, if talking hasn't worked and death isn't justified? Seems that a Taser or other compliance measure has its place, shocking as that may seem.

    It seem [sic] people forgot about any restraint other then [sic] the handcuffs and force.
    For those resisting and refusing to comply via the (brief) negotiation, there aren't many options other than, ultimately, some measure of force. The only choice is which measure.

    If anyone cares to go toe to toe with me, then it's all down to the draw
    Let us know how that works, if you're asked to comply. The news is full of folks who go down that road. It's a lonely road, my friend.
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  7. #21
    Senior Member Array walvord's Avatar
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    The UN needs to move to Caracus or Havana or Tripoli, I don't care where - just get it out of here. Then next step, get the American taxpayer of the UN - I'm sick and tired of paying for their crap.
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  8. #22
    Senior Member Array dunndw's Avatar
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    The UN should be moved to a man made island in the middle of the north Atlantic.
    "If I was an extremist, our founding fathers would all be extremists," he said. "Without them, we wouldn't have our independence. We'd be a disarmed British system of feudal subjectivity."

  9. #23
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    Kick the U.N. out of the U.S. is my advice.
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  10. #24
    Senior Member Array Sergeant Mac's Avatar
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    I've been tased, sprayed with OC, and pummeled with arms, legs and batons in training.

    Here are my own personal findings:

    1. Afterwards, I'd rather be Tased.

    2. While it's happening, I'd rather anything BUT being Tased.

    It absolutely SUCKS while it's going on. "Torture" isn't really all that much of a stretch, I suppose. But, then again, that term could be applied to ANY intentional application of pain.

    I think the main problem with the Taser is not its effects, but what it's used for. There's a tendency to become overly dependent upon the Taser. When the only tool in your toolbox is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

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